O/T Why doesn't MLB Celebrate Larry Doby more?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I still don't think he's any better than outfielders such as Minoso and Colavito and Oliva etc. who history has adjudged to be one step below Hall level. That does not detract from him in any way, but I do think it's the case that his pioneering role had a lot to do with his selection.

I hear you and I agree with you about him probably not being better than Minoso, but I also believe Minoso should be in the HOF. That being said Doby had a better HOF career than Oliva and Colavito, especially when you factor in his time in the Negro Leagues.

[packs]

Why isn't Bernie Williams a valid comparison? They have the same exact WAR at the same position, which is what you used to assert Doby was a HOFer. Doby was 7x AS while Williams was 5. Williams has more hits than Doby as well to go along with a batting title and 4 championships. So if those stats made Doby a HOFer why is it not valid to compare him to Bernie?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

Why isn't Bernie Williams a valid comparison? They have the same exact WAR at the same position, which is what you used to assert Doby was a HOFer. Doby was 7x AS while Williams was 5. Williams has more hits than Doby as well to go along with a batting title and 4 championships. So if those stats made Doby a HOFer why is it not valid to compare him to Bernie?

Did Bernie Williams play in the Negro Leagues for 5 seasons? You are essentially subtracting 5 years of Player A’s career and then saying that he compares to Player B because they have the same WAR.

[packs]

You brought up the WAR and other stats not me. Doby played in the Negro League from 18 to 22, which is time many Major Leaguers spend in the minor leagues.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

You brought up the WAR and other stats not me. Doby played in the Negro League from 18 to 22, which is time many Major Leaguers spend in the minor leagues.

Including Bernie Williams, it appears.

[packs]

Robinson was 28 by comparison which factors into the idea of a lost career more than ages 18 to 22, when only the elite of the elite can expect to be in the major leagues for any meaningful amount of time.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

Robinson was 28 by comparison which factors into the idea of a lost career more than ages 18 to 22, when only the elite of the elite can expect to be in the major leagues for any meaningful amount of time.

Age is meaningless, there have always been players that were better than their ages would indicate. In this case Doby actually had a more Negro League experience by the time 1947 rolled around than Jackie Robinson did so again I don’t really see your point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jackie also had the third highest WAR for the decade he played, behind Williams and Musial.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

You brought up the WAR and other stats not me. Doby played in the Negro League from 18 to 22, which is time many Major Leaguers spend in the minor leagues.

But he couldn’t play in the Minor Leagues could he?

You have no idea if he would have played in the Minor Leagues, the Negro Leagues were pretty high level competition or we wouldn’t have enshrined players that played only there.

Getting back to the point, this why I said that it wasn’t a valid comparison. Not sure why you like to argue so much.

[packs]

You brought everything up I commented on but you discounted what I said because it was me who said it. I pointed out his age because it seems relevant when you're saying he lost 5 seasons. Those seasons were likely minor league seasons.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

You brought everything up I commented on but you discounted what I said because it was me who said it. Only the best of the best play full seasons of major league baseball before 22. Even Gehrig didn't play a full season until he was 22.

So are we just going to pretend like Doby didn’t play those seasons? What exactly is your point?

He played more seasons in a high level league that we don’t have valid stats for that ARE included in his legacy but because of some asinine logic about how he was too young we should discount that as never having happened and compare him to a player that played an entire career and amassed the same WAR as a player that didn’t have those same possibilities?

Again, comparing a player that played 5 years in the Negro Leagues and then had a very good career in the Majors to a guy 35 years later with none of those factors is (and I will say this slowly) NOT A VALID COMPARISON!

Also, Larry Doby is only 4 years younger than Jackie. He turned 24 the year he began playing for the Indians.