Full Disclosure and Public Apology, Regarding T206 Reproductions Sold on Ebay in Feb.

[commishbob]

Maybe "fraud related" threads could be placed in their own forum for search/posterity purposes. Down by the Water Cooler forums or below the testing forum maybe. Other card forums have a 'bad trader' section so perhaps this is something to consider. OTOH cluttering up the site with additional forums may not be desirable. Just thinking out loud here as it were.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Maybe "fraud related" threads could be placed in their own forum for search/posterity purposes. Down by the Water Cooler forums or below the testing forum maybe. Other card forums have a 'bad trader' section so perhaps this is something to consider. OTOH cluttering up the site with additional forums may not be desirable. Just thinking out loud here as it were.

I still think that this main forum would be the best place to discuss it. Having it buried in another section might make it difficult to find.
But the idea of having a "fraud related" thread can list sellers and buyers who have done wrong in the business. Who to watch out for. I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

[TobaccoKing4]

Maybe there should be a pinned thread that lists people that have been found to be scamming/committing fraud. This way people know to proceed with caution in dealing with those people in the event that are reinstated on the forum.

[cardsnstuff]

Originally Posted by TobaccoKing4

Maybe there should be a pinned thread that lists people that have been found to be scamming/committing fraud. This way people know to proceed with caution in dealing with those people in the event that are reinstated on the forum.

I agree 100%; bad trader is a matter of who's opinion you listen too; but out right theft, fraud, blatant deceit, known to sell counterfeits, etc are of primary importance to every member of this board. I would think. As a community I would hope it is in everyone's best interest to protect the member's of the community. Just my 3 cents.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I still think that this main forum would be the best place to discuss it. Having it buried in another section might make it difficult to find.
But the idea of having a "fraud related" thread can list sellers and buyers who have done wrong in the business. Who to watch out for. I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

[Bpm0014]

I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

I 100% agree with this. You guys, everyone, does an unbelievable job!

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by Leon

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

Makes sense. Just keep things the way they are. It appears to be working.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by Leon

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

That makes sense. Thanks for the response Leon.

[vintagetoppsguy]

My opinion is that if he can prove he's a high school teen, then he should serve his 1 year sentence and be re-instated with limited access to the BST (as a buyer only, not a seller - at least not for a while). We should just chalk it up as being young, irresponsible and immature. That's assuming Leon talks to him and gets the feeling that he's truly sorry.

On another note, I think banning someone for being a neo-Nazi is far worse than being a neo-Nazi. Since when does Net54 moderators intrude in people's personal lives and what they do outside the boards as long as the propaganda is not being espoused on the boards? I don't care what someone does outside the boards as long as they have positive things to contribute to the boards. I don't care if they're a member of the KKK, BLM, what political party they belong to, their religion or whatever. Why is any of that important to board membership (again as long as they're not espousing their views on the board)? Very, very intrusive. Worse than gov't intrusion in my opinion. Guess that's what America is coming to.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My opinion is that if he can prove he's a high school teen, then he should serve his 1 year sentence and be re-instated with limited access to the BST (as a buyer only, not a seller - at least not for a while). We should just chalk it up as being young, irresponsible and immature. That's assuming Leon talks to him and gets the feeling that he's truly sorry.

On another note, I think banning someone for being a neo-Nazi is far worse than being a neo-Nazi. Since when does Net54 moderators intrude in people's personal lives and what they do outside the boards as long as the propaganda is not being espoused on the boards? I don't care what someone does outside the boards as long as they have positive things to contribute to the boards. I don't care if they're a member of the KKK, BLM, what political party they belong to, their religion or whatever. Why is any of that important to board membership (again as long as they're not espousing their views on the board)? Very, very intrusive. Worse than gov't intrusion in my opinion. Guess that's what America is coming to.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I do care. If there is a confirmed skinhead, KKK member or worse on this board, and I find out, they won't be here. And if anyone doesn't like it they can pound sand.
BTW, I actually see the point being made concerning interfering in private lives. But this is a private board and it's not going to cater to those extreme haters, even if they don't espouse their hate on the board, while the current management is in place.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I do care. If there is a confirmed skinhead, KKK member or worse on this board, and I find out, they won't be here. And if anyone doesn't like it they can pound sand.
BTW, I actually see the point being made concerning interfering in private lives. But this is a private board and it's not going to cater to those extreme haters, even if they don't espouse their hate on the board, while the current management is in place.

The question then becomes where do you draw the line(s) and what's too extreme left and what's too extreme right?

As an odd personal experience/example, one of the first online groups I joined was an AOL chat board about listening to shortwave radio.

Turns out one member was a well known - like was on TV here in the US- racist. Except he was just a really mellow one, didn't come across as hateful, didn't express a wish for violence on anyone, just didn't want to live next door to anyone who wasn't like him. (Something I totally disagree with and find really undesirable even the relaxed way he expressed it) He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all.

Most of us just wanted them both to stfu and get back to discussing what weird radio stations were on what frequency....


So which would get banned? The mellow A-Hole, or the violence promoting guy who was probably ok in real life?

[gregr2]

Hi all, I took about a 2 year hiatus from the board (self imposed, got a little burned out) and logged in two days ago for the first time. I was really saddened to see this thread. Seems this hobby can't ever get rid of the bad apples and when they do, another one grows from the tree.

That is all.
Greg

[Leon]

Originally Posted by steve B

The question then becomes where do you draw the line(s) and what's too extreme left and what's too extreme right?

As an odd personal experience/example, one of the first online groups I joined was an AOL chat board about listening to shortwave radio.

Turns out one member was a well known - like was on TV here in the US- racist. Except he was just a really mellow one, didn't come across as hateful, didn't express a wish for violence on anyone, just didn't want to live next door to anyone who wasn't like him. (Something I totally disagree with and find really undesirable even the relaxed way he expressed it) He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all.

Most of us just wanted them both to stfu and get back to discussing what weird radio stations were on what frequency....


So which would get banned? The mellow A-Hole, or the violence promoting guy who was probably ok in real life?

I feel it is my duty to try to provide a relaxing, peaceful and friendly environment around here. The fact that there could be some who espouse hatred being in those groups, makes it uncomfortable for many members including myself. If someone keeps their views to themself, and they aren't running for the Grand KKK dude, then they probably wouldn't even be known about on this forum. I think it comes down to who we want to associate with. I firmly believe the great majority here don't want to associate with hate mongers. This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations. I can't imagine trying to do a deal with a known skinhead or Natzi on the BST, therefore it's not going to happen.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

I feel it is my duty to try to provide a relaxing, peaceful and friendly environment around here. The fact that there could be some who espouse hatred being in those groups, makes it uncomfortable for many members including myself. If someone keeps their views to themself, and they aren't running for the Grand KKK dude, then they probably wouldn't even be known about on this forum. I think it comes down to who we want to associate with. I firmly believe the great majority here don't want to associate with hate mongers. This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations. I can't imagine trying to do a deal with a known skinhead or Natzi on the BST, therefore it's not going to happen.

I can agree with that.

I don't have much tolerance for them either, but I also don't go out of my way to find out stuff about everyone I come in contact with. Like you said, if they stick to cards and aren't a public figure or activist we'll probably never know.
I just think a situation could come up where there's a disagreement about hobby stuff (Nah, that never happens! ) And someone digs up something to get the other person kicked off. That wouldn't seem fair to me even if I didn't like the persons views.

[Rookiemonster]

So if Hitler was a good board member then that’s all that matters? How could you even try to make argument for a nazi on the board. It’s not like he doesn’t like dogs or hates vegetables. He believes in the views and actions of the Nazi party. Even comparing it to republicans or democrat is ridiculous.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Leon

This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations.

Can we get a list of those extremist organizations? So that we can be on the look out for them, of course.

Most of us probably can agree on some subset of the list, but I bet everyone on the board has a different list. Slippery slope if you ask me.

And I do thank you for the job your doing Leon, this is generally a very well behaved group and I enjoy being a member.