Full Disclosure and Public Apology, Regarding T206 Reproductions Sold on Ebay in Feb.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Yep

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

Well, it was 9 years ago, and he was signed up for the website. He claimed it was a "history" site. I don't know how old Jerry is, but even a senile person would find the "history" on that site to be off a bit.

[darwinbulldog]

Surely the simplest explanation is that he endorses the views espoused on the site. Perhaps he's also sending his savings to Nigerian princes and to people selling raw T206 Wagners on eBay or something, but being senile doesn't make you racist. It might make you less careful about revealing your racism, but that's a separate issue.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't understand why, if he bid the lots up to make sure nobody else won them due to remorse, he then opened the unpaid item cases. And as a seller, can't you always cancel your own listing even if there are bids on it?

[ullmandds]

Another good reason to avoid collecting T206...no one messes with caramels!!!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Well, it was 9 years ago, and he was signed up for the website. He claimed it was a "history" site. I don't know how old Jerry is, but even a senile person would find the "history" on that site to be off a bit.

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

Back to NJ. I really hope he learns from this. I wish I had learned some life-skills things when I was younger. Learning the hard way is difficult.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

I didn't buy his explanation then and I certainly don't forget or forgive when it comes to something like that. NOBODY could ever read a single thread on that site and come to the conclusion that it's a good place to read up on history. I think maybe you should go back and read the thread. And sorry that I've sidetracked this thread (you can thank me in a year Mr Dunkin), but that's the first thing that pops in my head every single time I see him post here.

[Orioles1954]

In 1999, I had to join a couple of white supremacist websites in order to interview a Klan leader and Tom Metzger (google him, creepy dude) for a graduate school project. Haven't been back since. Those places were...well....sobering.

[chlankf]

Originally Posted by Leon

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

Exactly Leon. In '99-'02, a band I was in played a show that unfortunately had a couple skinheads present. We all just kinda shook our heads. Six months or so later we played the same city and venue. Shocking, the place was packed with these disturbing individuals. Next thing we know an offer comes in to play some hate festival. We find our bands & members names on their website. Lots of time and effort to get removed but I'm not 100% there isn't something lingering. 🤟

Originally Posted by oldjudge

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

No way he's in HS. I have three boys aged 15-20. They DO NOT communicate like this. Brother... Come on. That's how me and my friends talk, I'm 45. Side note, my father taught me at a young age that a theif was the lowest of all, preying on others for any reason, forgot. Nope. Yes people can and do change but a theif will never stop if opportunity arises. Coming back? Wait. Are we going to continue to allow this sort of individual to gain knowledge from all you fine folks for possible/probably future use?

Rant done.

[KMayUSA6060]

NJ's sincerity in this apology should be heavily scrutinized. I have good reason to believe he's only sorry he got caught.

I have a friend in the hobby that noticed something fishy with NJ's eBay listings, and he showed them to me. NJ and I have had some good conversations in the past, as I'm sure many of you have experienced. I reached out to him to see what these fishy listings were about, knowing full well what the intent was. From NJ's presence on here, he always came off as a very passionate individual regarding the hobby, trying to soak up knowledge and really be a positive influence in the community. I knew he wasn't ignorant when it came to fakes, and his listings clearly contained fakes. It angered me, and when I confronted him, his responses pissed me off even more. For full disclosure, I will copy and paste our conversation from February below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Hey NJ,

Are you selling reprints as questionable?

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hey Kyle!

Great to hear from you, brother. I actually put up the listings to try and copy the pseudo-legitimate style that so many listers use, but ended up feeling bad and took down as many as I physically could at the end, while bidding up the other two to make sure no one would win them.

Next time I re-list, I've decided to make it much more clear that these are intended to look like old reproductions (although I had listed the cards as "reprints" under that category already.)

It's a fun project to make them and make a few bucks in turn

How have your collecting adventures been? Picked up anything new lately?

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Cut it out. You're better than that. I've always thought highly of you, and from what I know you have a good reputation in the hobby. Don't jeopardize that for a few cheap bucks. You're doing it on a separate account from your main eBay account, which is sketchy as well.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hmm...perhaps you are right. I wouldn't do this to damage my reputation intentionally, but selling "reprints" could be cardboard suicide. I'll give this some thought.

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
You're smarter than that, and I think you know why you did this, and that what you did/are doing was/is wrong. You went for the chump change. Of course you didn't purposefully damage your reputation, because you didn't think you'd get caught by selling on your second account. Your emails don't sound very remorseful either, and now I'm seeing a post on Net54 that you're looking for 3 pricey cards? Please tell me you aren't using any profits from this scheme to fund those purchases. Sorry NJ, but something stinks here and I don't like it.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Kyle,

I have never done this for easy money or to take a sleazy road. That has never been and never will be my intention. Please hear my heart on this--don't read in to this more than it is.

I'll never sell reprints like this again. I can give you my honest word, I never did this to take advantage of anyone. It was just like crafts in school; I did it for fun in an effort to make intentionally advertised reproductions for display.

The moral ambiguity was a mistake on my part; realizing how foolish that looked only came after I logged in to check the auctions.

I would not want to lose my friendship with you at all, brother. I wouldn't lose it for the world. I really enjoy your company and love our discussions of old cards.

Additionally, if you would like to hear why I asked about those cards on N54 (the expensive ones), I would be happy to explain them to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From what I've seen in his similar conversations with others who have confronted him, he has worked to sculpt his "apology" to open the door as much as possible for forgiveness. Essentially, he's working the angles to avoid the death penalty in the hobby. I wanted to share our conversation because I don't believe there should be much sympathy for him. I know people live by the adage "forgive and forget" but I'm not sure I'll ever forgive, and I sure as hell won't forget.

I have no idea how old he is. I do know that money affects livelihoods. It's criminal what he did, no matter the age, and his knowledge on the situation is well beyond any potential ignorance at his age.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

NJ's sincerity in this apology should be heavily scrutinized. I have good reason to believe he's only sorry he got caught.

I have a friend in the hobby that noticed something fishy with NJ's eBay listings, and he showed them to me. NJ and I have had some good conversations in the past, as I'm sure many of you have experienced. I reached out to him to see what these fishy listings were about, knowing full well what the intent was. From NJ's presence on here, he always came off as a very passionate individual regarding the hobby, trying to soak up knowledge and really be a positive influence in the community. I knew he wasn't ignorant when it came to fakes, and his listings clearly contained fakes. It angered me, and when I confronted him, his responses pissed me off even more. For full disclosure, I will copy and paste our conversation from February below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Hey NJ,

Are you selling reprints as questionable?

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hey Kyle!

Great to hear from you, brother. I actually put up the listings to try and copy the pseudo-legitimate style that so many listers use, but ended up feeling bad and took down as many as I physically could at the end, while bidding up the other two to make sure no one would win them.

Next time I re-list, I've decided to make it much more clear that these are intended to look like old reproductions (although I had listed the cards as "reprints" under that category already.)

It's a fun project to make them and make a few bucks in turn

How have your collecting adventures been? Picked up anything new lately?

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Cut it out. You're better than that. I've always thought highly of you, and from what I know you have a good reputation in the hobby. Don't jeopardize that for a few cheap bucks. You're doing it on a separate account from your main eBay account, which is sketchy as well.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hmm...perhaps you are right. I wouldn't do this to damage my reputation intentionally, but selling "reprints" could be cardboard suicide. I'll give this some thought.

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
You're smarter than that, and I think you know why you did this, and that what you did/are doing was/is wrong. You went for the chump change. Of course you didn't purposefully damage your reputation, because you didn't think you'd get caught by selling on your second account. Your emails don't sound very remorseful either, and now I'm seeing a post on Net54 that you're looking for 3 pricey cards? Please tell me you aren't using any profits from this scheme to fund those purchases. Sorry NJ, but something stinks here and I don't like it.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Kyle,

I have never done this for easy money or to take a sleazy road. That has never been and never will be my intention. Please hear my heart on this--don't read in to this more than it is.

I'll never sell reprints like this again. I can give you my honest word, I never did this to take advantage of anyone. It was just like crafts in school; I did it for fun in an effort to make intentionally advertised reproductions for display.

The moral ambiguity was a mistake on my part; realizing how foolish that looked only came after I logged in to check the auctions.

I would not want to lose my friendship with you at all, brother. I wouldn't lose it for the world. I really enjoy your company and love our discussions of old cards.

Additionally, if you would like to hear why I asked about those cards on N54 (the expensive ones), I would be happy to explain them to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This sounds like a poorly written screenplay.

[Exhibitman]

Question: If he had walked into a card show and stolen some cards from a table would you be OK with having him here again, ever? If the answer is "no" then I don't think he should be allowed back. There are enough crooks in the hobby already; we don't need a trainee-crook.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Question: If he had walked into a card show and stolen some cards from a table would you be OK with having him here again, ever? If the answer is "no" then I don't think he should be allowed back. There are enough crooks in the hobby already; we don't need a trainee-crook.

I completely agree. Even if he is young (and I very much doubt he is younger than 20 based upon reading his words in this thread) he pursued an extended con. If someone makes a lot of mistakes when they are young that primarily screws up their own life (drugs, alcohol, etc.), I'm sympathetic. If the focus is on damaging someone's else life that's a whole different ballgame in my book. Plus I'm really tired of those that follow this pattern:

1) Sell yourself as an extremely devout Christian do-gooder by saying things like "all blessings to Jesus, our Lord and savior, etc."

2) Do a series of things over a long period of time deliberately damaging other peoples' lives.

3) Once caught (not before then), ask or expect to be vindicated though a bunch of superficial mea culpas.

I don't buy it, and I don't see that as being harsh or overly punitive. I see it as being a realist. If he earnestly wants to compensate for conning people he can undertake his own self-exile away from this Board/hobby. We are all full up on bad actors in this hobby. There is no need for another casting call in a year.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by griffon512

I completely agree. Even if he is young (and I very much doubt he is younger than 20 based upon reading his words in this thread) he pursued an extended con. If someone makes a lot of mistakes when they are young that primarily screws up their own life (drugs, alcohol, etc.), I'm sympathetic. If the focus is on damaging someone's else life that's a whole different ballgame in my book. Plus I'm really tired of those that follow this pattern:

1) Sell yourself as an extremely devout Christian do-gooder by saying things like "all blessings to Jesus, our Lord and savior, etc."

2) Do a series of things over a long period of time deliberately damaging other peoples' lives.

3) Once caught (not before then), ask or expect to be vindicated though a bunch of superficial mea culpas.

I don't buy it, and I don't see that as being harsh or overly punitive. I see it as being a realist. If he earnestly wants to compensate for conning people he can undertake his own self-exile away from this Board/hobby. We are all full up on bad actors in this hobby. There is no need for another casting call in a year.

Well said, James. This guy is so full of shit it’s coming out of his ears. Unfortunately, we are seeing this type of stuff once a month these days. Very unfortunate.

Toby Petersen

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Leon

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

I'd consider doing business with a racist or a skinhead before I would with someone who blatantly defrauded others in the hobby. Although I do agree it would be best not to have either as members of this community.