1948 Leaf Satchel Paige - blank back - on eBay....

[PiratesWS1979]

Please don’t use the term “ignorance” to a seller with 17K+ feedback. Yes, there was definitely money left on the table but I don’t think an outrageous amount. Looking at the selling prices realized there is not a whole lot with grading and selling fees. Also remember time may also be a factor. Raaphds/Meenman is listing and paid within a week. I know when I need sell something the last thing I think of is:

I could get 20% more if I send to PSA…wait 2 or 3 months, then send to an auction house…wait 1 or 2 months for payment…then pay the auction house an extra 10%!!

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

Please don’t use the term “ignorance” to a seller with 17K+ feedback. Yes, there was definitely money left on the table but I don’t think an outrageous amount. Looking at the selling prices realized there is not a whole lot with grading and selling fees. Also remember time may also be a factor. Raaphds/Meenman is listing and paid within a week. I know when I need sell something the last thing I think of is:

I could get 20% more if I send to PSA…wait 2 or 3 months, then send to an auction house…wait 1 or 2 months for payment…then pay the auction house an extra 10%!!

It may have been a tad harsh, but undoubtedly accurate. I will explain, but it correlates closely to how ignorance is truly bliss.

It is likely because of the 17k transactions that they chose to sell themselves rather than pay an auction house. Success elsewhere immediately may not equate to optimal success in a new category especially since the card market is such a unique environment of collectible. He is indeed achieving great RAW prices, but if you were going to bank on raw, greg_morris or another raw seller could potentially blow away those prices because they would be more trusted with raw cards from day 1--not to mention you have greg's assessment to go along with it as well. Even if this seller has a following now, the original sales all had a fairly significant loss in value. And still to this moment, I am quite sure a few big spenders avoid them altogether no matter how much they'd like to spend because of the fear of unknown. Most members here were skeptical, and for good reason still probably are. My point being just that. It has been good for sales on paper, but when you don't know the real value of the same card graded and what it would sell for once slabbed then you are just turning a blind eye.
On top of all of this, the first recommendations from others here was to grade the cards and then sell--because they would then bid. This is my point about money being left on table.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

It may have been a tad harsh, but undoubtedly accurate. I will explain, but it correlates closely to how ignorance is truly bliss.

It is likely because of the 17k transactions that they chose to sell themselves rather than pay an auction house. Success elsewhere immediately may not equate to optimal success in a new category especially since the card market is such a unique environment of collectible. He is indeed achieving great RAW prices, but if you were going to bank on raw, greg_morris or another raw seller could potentially blow away those prices because they would be more trusted with raw cards from day 1--not to mention you have greg's assessment to go along with it as well. Even if this seller has a following now, the original sales all had a fairly significant loss in value. And still to this moment, I am quite sure a few big spenders avoid them altogether no matter how much they'd like to spend because of the fear of unknown. Most members here were skeptical, and for good reason still probably are. My point being just that. It has been good for sales on paper, but when you don't know the real value of the same card graded and what it would sell for once slabbed then you are just turning a blind eye.
On top of all of this, the first recommendations from others here was to grade the cards and then sell--because they would then bid. This is my point about money being left on table.

If you truly believe this why didn't/don't you buy all his cards and resell them?

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If you truly believe this why didn't/don't you buy all his cards and resell them?

Not deep enough pockets to buy everything. I am actually hurting myself by posting that grading and/or sending to an auction house are the only answers, but it is what it is. If you are in the same boat as I, I get why "we" would want him to continue down the path he has.

If this collection would have been graded or given to an auction house it would have been equal to a "find" and we would have had a chance to see the collection of the gentleman as a whole before it was dissected. I guess I am a romantic.

[Meenman]

This isn't my first rodeo. This is my business. I've been selling on eBay for a long time. Some of these cards that I have sold were in the top 10 of graded cards. I have the record of selling a boy scout item for on eBay for 18000.00. I've sold cards before coins stamps glass pottery artwork gold silver rugs jewelry bicycles, ect. On and off ebay. I am not a specialist on cards but I'm not a fool. I don't have the passion like some of you have. But I can understand it by the prices I'm getting from ungraded cards. I did my homework before I sold one card. Graded or ungraded. I chose ungraded. I think I represent myself well.I understand what you are saying about grading and auction. I made the choice for me and my situation. No regrets. And I still have the blank back Paige.TIt will be graded.The reason that I have an eBay business is for item like these. I cam compete with anyone. And I don't really trust auction houses. I've had many bad experiences with them. I'm not sitting hete in ignorant bliss. Far from it.

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by Meenman

This isn't my first rodeo. This is my business. I've been selling on eBay for a long time. Some of these cards that I have sold were in the top 10 of graded cards. I have the record of selling a boy scout item for on eBay for 18000.00. I've sold cards before coins stamps glass pottery artwork gold silver rugs jewelry bicycles, ect. On and off ebay. I am not a specialist on cards but I'm not a fool. I don't have the passion like some of you have. But I can understand it by the prices I'm getting from ungraded cards. I did my homework before I sold one card. Graded or ungraded. I chose ungraded. I think I represent myself well.I understand what you are saying about grading and auction. I made the choice for me and my situation. No regrets. And I still have the blank back Paige.TIt will be graded.The reason that I have an eBay business is for item like these. I cam compete with anyone. And I don't really trust auction houses. I've had many bad experiences with them. I'm not sitting hete in ignorant bliss. Far from it.

Even though a few of your statements will be misunderstood by some of the forum members as a possible "story", I personally believe you and my bidding has proven that. I will take back the ignorance is bliss comment and just try to level with you since you do agree your normal market is not in cards.

Simply put, if you think it is a better choice to grade the Paige to maximize value, you have already given yourself advice for the majority of the cards. Especially if you have more of the same to follow. I cannot be more straight forward. GL

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Meenman

This isn't my first rodeo. This is my business. I've been selling on eBay for a long time. Some of these cards that I have sold were in the top 10 of graded cards. I have the record of selling a boy scout item for on eBay for 18000.00. I've sold cards before coins stamps glass pottery artwork gold silver rugs jewelry bicycles, ect. On and off ebay. I am not a specialist on cards but I'm not a fool. I don't have the passion like some of you have. But I can understand it by the prices I'm getting from ungraded cards. I did my homework before I sold one card. Graded or ungraded. I chose ungraded. I think I represent myself well.I understand what you are saying about grading and auction. I made the choice for me and my situation. No regrets. And I still have the blank back Paige.TIt will be graded.The reason that I have an eBay business is for item like these. I cam compete with anyone. And I don't really trust auction houses. I've had many bad experiences with them. I'm not sitting hete in ignorant bliss. Far from it.

I totally agree with what you are doing...and you in no way need to justify your actions here. Descriptions are pretty honest...cards are obviously authentic. Personally as a lifelong collector/passionate old cardboard enthusiast I refuse to play the BS PSA waiting/resubmit game. As you say you're doing pretty well selling raw and it will be interesting to see how the Paige does eventually.

[Scocs]

I just don’t understand why the card went from $30,000 to $100,000 in the middle of the auction. That seems disingenuous...

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I totally agree with what you are doing...and you in no way need to justify your actions here. Descriptions are pretty honest...cards are obviously authentic. Personally as a lifelong collector/passionate old cardboard enthusiast I refuse to play the BS PSA waiting/resubmit game. As you say you're doing pretty well selling raw and it will be interesting to see how the Paige does eventually.

Couldn't agree more.

[CW]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

Please don’t use the term “ignorance” to a seller with 17K+ feedback.

I realize I'm sticking my nose into a side discussion here, but after briefly looking at a few pages of this seller's feedback, it doesn't appear much of the 17K was from sportscard sales.

Regarding the choice to sell raw:

One other possible negative of choosing to sell these cards raw is you may have to deal with a few more returns or unhappy customers.

Some collectors may receive the cards and find a flaw that wasn't visible in the scan. While this issue could still exist with graded cards, it is minimized compared to selling raw. The seller also has to hope the buyer is honest and returns the original card (without any additional damage to the card as well).

I guess each method has it's positives and negatives, and each seller has to weigh them on their own. Raw? Graded? Ebay or auction house?