Hey, pennant guys

[bocca001]

I had time to do some searching while my son was at practice. The Seals logo and lettering seems to match better with Seals Uniforms from 1938-1939, not the 1915-1920 dates mentioned by Egner. Or, the 1927 date mentioned by the E-bay seller. See the images below from Ebbets. The pennant logo is not an exact match of the logo used by Ebbets (see the hat), although it is similar in many ways. The Orange lettering on the 1939 jersey is pretty close.

And, trust me, I'm curious to know about the true age of the pennant, even if it is more recent. I know it doesn't match the E-bay one and does match the Egner book one. I also believe mine has a decent amount of age. How much age? I'm not certain.

[thetahat]

Marc, I find it interesting that your pennant has horizontal stitching along the top edge of the white strip (and presumably bottom edge). I can see it faintly in your close up. It makes it impossible to slide a stick or dowel inside. I’ve only seen this once before and it was a very old vintage pennant. This may be another important distinction from what is currently on eBay.

[bocca001]

Greg- Good eyes. It does have horizontal stitching on both the bottom and top. I probably have about 200 pennants. I see two others with the horizontal stitching: Both are pretty old college pennants that also have stitched on letters. One still has the tassels tied (I'm assume that they were tied to the dowel).

[lefty147]

I was able to find the original color photo of the one used in the book. I do not remember where it originally came since so many people were emailing pictures at the time. I tried to find the picture of it before it was resized (to include the tassels) and could not locate it. I think this is the exact pennant you own Marc based on looking at the "S" at the end of Seals you can see the same 4 "nibbles" around the perimeter. Mike

[bocca001]

So, as you can tell from Mike's post, it looks like I have the "real" Seals pennant from his book. But, after looking it over closely with a black light, it is clear that this real pennant isn't real old (the white threads light up). I reached out to seattlerainers and he told me that he thinks the pennant may have been produced in the 1990s, in conjunction with the "Runs, Hits, and and Era" museum exhibit. I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever seen another (or if I have the market cornered).

So, that hurts a bit, as I know I paid a couple hundred for this about 6 years ago. This was one of the first pennants I picked up when I got back into collecting. If I knew then what I know now, I would have realized that the price was really too low if it was a vintage PCL pennant (especially Seals). So it goes.

I am curious to know if any of you have used a black light on your pennants. If you have, what is the oldest pennant with white threads that "light up"?

The good news is that everything on eBay has been on sale on lately, even when buyers accept best offers (thanks, Rob). So I've attached a picture of my "on sale" purchases to end this on a happy note.

[seattlerainiers]

As Marc said, I communicated with him via private message about this pennant. I got more specific information yesterday over lunch with Jerry Cohen of Ebbets Field Flannels.

This Seals pennant was produced by "Cooperstown Co" in the 1990s. Jerry knows the owner of the company, and said that this fellow had high hopes for selling these commercially at the time of production, but that it wasn't successful.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by seattlerainiers

As Marc said, I communicated with him via private message about this pennant. I got more specific information yesterday over lunch with Jerry Cohen of Ebbets Field Flannels.

This Seals pennant was produced by "Cooperstown Co" in the 1990s. Jerry knows the owner of the company, and said that this fellow had high hopes for selling these commercially at the time of production, but that it wasn't successful.

Thanks for sealing the deal on this one! It just never felt right, in terms of its construction and obvious pristine condition. But before we "close the book" on it, I have a final question...

Many/most of these repro pennants are based on actual vintage pennant designs. This holds true for both Cooperstown and Mitchell & Ness. A few are completely "conjured up" designs, but the vast majority are relatively faithful copies of the real thing.

So.... Was this Seals Pennant design based on an actual Teens Oversized Pennant? Or is it just a fantasy creation that the artist/designer concocted on his/her own? In other words.... Has anyone ever seen a real one?

[bocca001]

I'll defer to PCL experts about whether a real pre-war pennant like this might exist, but everything I found suggested probably not. The letter style on the pennant seems to be a mishmash of 1938-1944 styles, with colors and letter style from 1938/1939 and the white underneath the letters from 1944 (although the Seals letters appear more red than Orange in 1944). They also had a hat with the Seal on it from about 1938-1940, which ties in with the two seal figures on the pennant.

I still think it is strange that there are two different versions of this pennant. I do know that the ebay Seals pennant looks much newer than the one I own, and that (although the condition is too strong for something super old) mine looks older than other things I own from the 1990s. But the black light doesn't lie. It just can't be that old. Still, the ebay one seems like a copy of the one I have.

I am curious if anyone has taken a black light to some of their 1950s - 1970s pennants. I found paint/print that would light up, but rarely the stitching.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by bocca001

So, as you can tell from Mike's post, it looks like I have the "real" Seals pennant from his book. But, after looking it over closely with a black light, it is clear that this real pennant isn't real old (the white threads light up). I reached out to seattlerainers and he told me that he thinks the pennant may have been produced in the 1990s, in conjunction with the "Runs, Hits, and and Era" museum exhibit. I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever seen another (or if I have the market cornered).

So, that hurts a bit, as I know I paid a couple hundred for this about 6 years ago. This was one of the first pennants I picked up when I got back into collecting. If I knew then what I know now, I would have realized that the price was really too low if it was a vintage PCL pennant (especially Seals). So it goes.

I am curious to know if any of you have used a black light on your pennants. If you have, what is the oldest pennant with white threads that "light up"?

The good news is that everything on eBay has been on sale on lately, even when buyers accept best offers (thanks, Rob). So I've attached a picture of my "on sale" purchases to end this on a happy note.

Sorry it didn't turn out to be what you'd hoped, but thank you for starting the discussion about your pennant -- and others like it. It's been interesting and informative.

[Fballguy]

That's a bummer. But we've all likely been there. I know I have. Live and learn. When it comes to this hobby, there's A LOT to learn.

On the bright side..You picked up some nice pennants. Love that Oilers.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I am curious to know if any of you have used a black light on your pennants. If you have, what is the oldest pennant with white threads that "light up"?

The good news is that everything on eBay has been on sale on lately, even when buyers accept best offers (thanks, Rob). So I've attached a picture of my "on sale" purchases to end this on a happy note.

Great pickups, Marc!

I have never used or heard of the black light test. What is it that then test proves or suggests?

[bocca001]

It is my understanding that only cloth/paper made after about WWII will "light up" under a black light. These materials sort of glow under the light, due to artificial whiteners/brighteners. It can be especially apparent in thread used for stitching. So, if something glows under the black light, in can’t be older than when these whiteners/brighteners came into use. But not all new materials will glow. So, if it glows, it can’t be that old. If it doesn’t glow, it may or may not be old.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...-collectibles/

[999Tony]

Pennant Fever: The Story of a New Obsession

So until recently, I was just another run of the mill baseball card collector. I didn't own a single pennant. Then I started reading this thread. I noticed a change in myself partway through. I began to get an itch, then an urge, then a fervent need to have pennants. A couple weeks ago I began scouring ebay for every baseball pennant listing. There were tons of cools ones that I just HAD to have. I put opening bids on 20 or 30. I watched 30 or 40 more. I checked the listing multiple times a day. But the fever hadn't completely overwhelmed me. I realized I had no idea of values or scarcity, so I wouldn't do any crazy bidding until I got the price guide. Plus, I needed to focus, start with getting a single team. The KC Monarchs pennant was awesome, but out of my price range. So I decided to start with getting KC A's pennants --doable, weren't in existence that long, there were several cool pennant for sale, I decided I really wanted one of the cool white elephant ones. Gotta get a white elephant!

So I got my first pennant. Late at night there was one I put in a really low bid. Within five minutes the seller accepted, without even a counteroffer (uhoh. For those who don't know, not a good sign)

See photo. Take a moment to study it closely, if you've read this far . . .
Did a dog chew off the end?



Oh, you say. Well. Um--er--well it does have character. Hey, if you like it, that's cool, people should collect what they like, as long as you enjoy it, and condition doesn't bother you, good for you . . .you must be a big Knicks fan.

I say --no not at all. Don't care at all about the Knicks. Never even lived in New York, or anywhere close.

Oh you say. Well at least you started an NBA collection.
I say true, but I don't care about the NBA --don't collect any basketball stuff.

Oh. You say. In that case, CONGRATULATIONS! You got your white elephant after all!




(I actually love the vintage look of my white elephant. Though I am hoping to get some other white elephants in the future)