Hey, pennant guys

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

It can be difficult to determine from a flat one-dimensional computer screen. But I'm pretty sure yours is a repro.

Are the graphics (Seals/Lettering) on yours painted on? Or is it embroidered?

If they are that "raised velvet" type, it's definitely a reproduction.

If the graphics are embroidered/stitched on, it could be an early/authentic example. But the construction looks far more recent than the Embroidered Teens pennants you typically see.

If the graphics are painted/screened on, it could go either way. But I would still lean towards reproduction. There should be some puckering/cracking/chipping to the painted graphics on a pennant of that vintage. Can you post an extreme close-up shot of the Seals and the Lettering? That (and a pic of the reverse side) would tell a lot.

Hope this is helpful.

Ebbets Field Flannel made repros of minor league pennants 15 or more years ago. They were really well done and people can mistake them for being authentic pennants. That said, I don't know if this one was a pennant they produced, although they do a ton of PLC stuff.

[perezfan]

Yeah.... good point. Pretty sure the Seals Pennant falls into that category, being that it's PCL. It definitely has that Ebbets Field look.

[bocca001]

Mine is stitched/embroidered. It looks just like the one in Egner’s book (p. 226 of the second edition). Features of the two seals on mine match the Egner book, but those in the online one do not. Just from the smell/look, it seems much older than 15-20 years. And the oversize (about 34 inches without the tassels) seems consistent with other pennants from earlier eras. The one on E-bay is 29 inches.

I bought this pennant several years ago on from a seller who had a three or so other old PCL pennants (I remember a Sac one for sure… also on page 226 of Egner’s book). They all sold quickly and were not cheap. I had wondered if the pennants were the exact ones from Egner’s book (as if a long-time collector was selling his collection).

As to whether the style (stitched) is consistent with the timeframe… I’m not sure. It would mean that the one in Egner’s book is not as old as listed, which would not be totally shocking. I can take some other pictures, although it is framed at the moment.

What was the time-frame for the oversized pennants?

[bocca001]

Ok, so here are some close ups (best I could do while framed). You can see what appears to be some damage around some of the letters (white fabric). The tassels also differ from the one currently online (with the notch in mine, not in the online version).

The Seals on mine differ from the one online in terms of a) placement of the two seals (the online one is further from the border and rotated clockwise), b) you can see a nose on mine, but not on the online one, and c) the flipper on the right seal looks different (the currently online one has a horizontal line across the flipper that mine does not have.

Egner's book doesn't show the tassels, but the flipper on mine is consistent with his, the placement of the Seals on mine is consistent with his, the nose is consistent with his (you have to zoom in on the book photo with a camera to see it) and the fact that mine is oversized is consistent with his.

Not sure what that all tells me, other than mine is much more consistent with Egner's book. I still think it might be the exact same one.

I can't get a picture of the back without undoing the frame, but there is no label on it or any evidence of a label.

[thetahat]

I can’t say one way or the other with 100% confidence, but those of you who have known embroidered oversized pennants (like from pre-1920), have you ever seen two colors that are both sewn, one over the other (to create an outline)? Mine are all one-color ...

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Ok, so here are some close ups (best I could do while framed). You can see what appears to be some damage around some of the letters (white fabric). The tassels also differ from the one currently online (with the notch in mine, not in the online version).

The Seals on mine differ from the one online in terms of a) placement of the two seals (the online one is further from the border and rotated clockwise), b) you can see a nose on mine, but not on the online one, and c) the flipper on the right seal looks different (the currently online one has a horizontal line across the flipper that mine does not have.

Egner's book doesn't show the tassels, but the flipper on mine is consistent with his, the placement of the Seals on mine is consistent with his, the nose is consistent with his (you have to zoom in on the book photo with a camera to see it) and the fact that mine is oversized is consistent with his.

Not sure what that all tells me, other than mine is much more consistent with Egner's book. I still think it might be the exact same one.

I can't get a picture of the back without undoing the frame, but there is no label on it or any evidence of a label.

I don't think EFF stitched images onto their pennants. If it is a repro, I doubt they did it.

[bocca001]

I had time to do some searching while my son was at practice. The Seals logo and lettering seems to match better with Seals Uniforms from 1938-1939, not the 1915-1920 dates mentioned by Egner. Or, the 1927 date mentioned by the E-bay seller. See the images below from Ebbets. The pennant logo is not an exact match of the logo used by Ebbets (see the hat), although it is similar in many ways. The Orange lettering on the 1939 jersey is pretty close.

And, trust me, I'm curious to know about the true age of the pennant, even if it is more recent. I know it doesn't match the E-bay one and does match the Egner book one. I also believe mine has a decent amount of age. How much age? I'm not certain.

[thetahat]

Marc, I find it interesting that your pennant has horizontal stitching along the top edge of the white strip (and presumably bottom edge). I can see it faintly in your close up. It makes it impossible to slide a stick or dowel inside. I’ve only seen this once before and it was a very old vintage pennant. This may be another important distinction from what is currently on eBay.