Help with this Ruth photo

[Leon]

I received an email from a person asking for help with this photo. Here is the email I received. I questioned it being Ruth but she is adamant. It resembles him but I haven't seen him have a slumping stance like that before. A follow up question was answered with the emblem on Ruth's jersey being a buffalo. Any help will be appreciated.

My name is Lisa R(....)I have an old photo of Babe Ruth that belonged to my grandmother. I was wondering if you might be able to tell me more about it. I've been looking through his photos for quite a long while and have not even found the farming team logo anywhere. The first black man playing ball is in the background as well as Bill summers and Charles Philippe. Interested to see if it might be worth something. My great grandmother used to cook for the Yankees on Sundays, not sure quiet how old it might be, and possibly might be an original,my grandmother was born in 1919 and I found it amongst her scrap book pages. If you might be able to help me or point me to someone who might, it would mean a lot to me.

[Bicem]

Babe Ruth?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Babe Ruth?

Yes, Babe Ruth?

[irv]

Imo, that guy looks nothing like Babe Ruth. Was there anyone else who was referred to as "Babe" back in the day?

[Dewey]

Doesn't look like Ruth to me. My hunch is if we can get a better look at the remainder of the slug that the last word might be the player's name and it doesn't look like Ruth either.

It reads something like (The) umpires Summers (and ...) talk over (old) times (with) Dasson (?).

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by irv

Imo, that guy looks nothing like Babe Ruth. Was there anyone else who was referred to as "Babe" back in the day?

I agree, looks nothing like Ruth to me. I have no idea who it may be though.

[Runscott]

Just guessing...

"Umpires Bummer and ..... talk over old times with Dawson.."

[khkco4bls]

That is not Babe Ruth

[Leon]

Thanks guys. The person emailing has been watching this thread. It is their belief it still is. Here is a little better close up of that pic..

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks guys. The person emailing has been watching this thread. It is their belief it still is. Here is a little better close up of that pic..

Hi person of interest. Unfortunately, the percentage that this is Babe Ruth is ZERO.

[Bpm0014]

100% not Babe Ruth. Could be his brother Bob Ruth tho...

[Runscott]

Please post a better scan of the caption and I will research

[thetruthisoutthere]

A young William Bendix...

[Steve D]

The umpire on the left appears to be (as mentioned in the OP), Bill Summers, who was an American League umpire from 1933-1959, and had a card in 1955 Bowman:




He apparently umpired in the Eastern League from 1921-1932. The Buffalo Bisons were an Eastern League team.

Steve

[steve B]

The only remote possibility I can find for the event in the photo. I didn't dig deep enough to see about Dawson or whatever that name actually is.

http://ampoleagle.com/babe-ruth-play...-p3671-124.htm

Joe Dawson vaguely resembles the player shown, but wasn't even in the minors until after these games.
Summers, of course was a minor league umpire at the time, but I didn't dig deep enough to see if he might have done a barnstorming game.
The game does seem to have been against a negro league team, so there's maybe something in the story.

Neat Photo, but not Ruth, even if he played in the game.

[Sophiedog]

The only thing true about that story is she fed those 3

[steve B]

Memories change over several years, it's really common. The main points usually stick, but the details drift. I've even tried to track down stuff I "knew" I was involved with in a certain year, only to find out I was a year off.

The closeup does look a lot more like him, but I haven't seen a pic of Ruth smiling like that, and even in pics from before 1920 he looks more wrinkly. I guess that can change or be hidden by the focus?

[Runscott]

Absolutely not Babe's front teeth.

[Butch7999]

That's Babe Ruth, just like we're all three of the Alou Bothers.

Buffalo left the Eastern League after 1911, and while we won't yet swear to it, we're pretty sure
that buffalo head on the absolutely-not-Babe-Ruth-guy's jersey was never used as the logo for
any Buffalo team, Eastern League, Federal League, International League, nor American Association.

Possibly the Texas League Houston Buffaloes of 1907-58...

[Leon]

So ya'll are saying there's a chance? Here is a blow up of the caption, anyway.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

So ya'll are saying there's a chance? Here is a blow up of the caption, anyway.

That looks more like 'Deacon' than 'Dawson'

[Butch7999]

It does say "Deacon," not that the fact that the absolutely-not-Babe-Ruth-guy's name is actually
typed out right there on the label is likely to change the lady's mind.
There are a few dozen guys with the surname Deacon and the nickname "Deacon" listed at
https://www.baseball-reference.com/s...acon&pid=&idx= , but few fit the era of the photo
and none have much if any resemblance to not-Babe-Ruth.
Also, given the monospace typewriter font, the second ump's name has to be three or at most four letters long,
so "Charles Philippe" has to be another misremembered item, assuming the label bears accurate information.

[nolemmings]

Wow, all sorts of confusion here, except for the fact that it is clearly not Babe Ruth.

The player is "Deacon" according to the slug, but it is not Charles "Deacon" Phillippe, who was done pitching in 1911 at age 39 and out of baseball altogether not long thereafter--well before Summers would have been umpiring at really any level. It also looks nothing like Deacon Phillippe, so where the lady got Charles Phillippe is a mystery.

It is possibly a retired player brought back for an old timer's game, as the caption hints they're talking about "old" times. He could even be wearing the contemporary uniform of a Buffalo or Bison team, having outgrown the threads of his playing days. That still doesn't help us know which Deacon it is, however.

Finally, I'm confused as to how the lady's grandmother even came upon the picture as part of her familiarity with either Ruth or the Yankees. If she was born in 1919, she would have been 15 when Babe last played in New York and not real likely to have cooked for the team then.

[Butch7999]

Todd, given the ambiguity of Lisa's grammar, maybe we're reading it wrong, sort of like a verbal version
of those novelty drawings that one stares at first seeing, say, an old crone's face but then after a minute
it's the back of a young lady's head, but...

Anyway, our take is that "Lisa R," who's assuming absolutely-not-Babe-Ruth is the Babe and at the center of the photo,
wrote "The first black man playing ball is in the background as well as Bill summers and Charles Philippe."
Then the label appears to state "Umpires Summers (and Xxx) talk over (old) times with Deacon."

So we figure she meant that she thinks Summers (who may possibly actually be, or might maybe not be)
umpire Bill Summers and "Charles Philippe" are the umps flanking definitely-not-Babe, whom the label seems to indicate
is some guy named or nicknamed "Deacon." It's maybe a total coincidence that a "Deacon" and a "Phillippe"
are both somehow connected to this photo (if only in Lisa's or her grandma's mind), but we're not really getting
a suggestion that Deacon Phillippe is alleged to be in any way involved -- except, of course, that Deacon Phillippe
was in fact Charles Louis "Deacon" Phillippe, so there is or was maybe some conflation of names in grandma's
memory.

At any rate, again, we're 99.9% certain that "Deacon"/not-Babe is not wearing a style of uniform ever worn
by any Buffalo Bison team. A slightly better than cursory search of unis worn by Texas League Houston Buffaloes
also failed to turn up any match to that buffalo-head logo, but more expert eyes might yet find something there...

ETA: we already have the uncomfortable feeling that, even if the photo experts, facial recognition experts, and
baseball history experts on this board combine to positively identify every guy in the photo and the venue and
date the picture was taken, within a couple of months the pic will be available on eBay as a photo of Babe Ruth
with Deacon Phillippe.

[mr2686]

I'll chime in here and say it's definitely not Ruth. Almost every photo I've ever seen of Ruth "smiling" is more of a "grin" with his top lip almost covering his teeth. This photo is a flat out big smile. Also, it just doesn't look like him.

[Sophiedog]

Definately not Babe Ruth

[Bpm0014]

I can't believe people are even debating whether this is Ruth haha

[Runscott]

I must be on everyone's ignore list

Deacon's front two teeth are NOT Babe Ruth's front two teeth - his right front tooth is chipped whereas I believe Babe died with all enamel intact. You can also google 'Babe Ruth' 'smiling' and find pictures that show his front teeth, in case you don't have me on 'ignore' and just don't believe me. This is not a matter of 'he does not look like Babe' - this is definite forensic evidence.

I'm curious who the player actually is.

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

I can't believe people are even debating whether this is Ruth haha

Not one person in this thread is debating anything of the sort. The debate rests solely in the mind of the someone who likely wants to sell it or keep a fond memory of her grandma.