OT: Hall of Fame - Edgar Martinez?

[Peter_Spaeth]

From Baseball Reference's Similarity Scores.
Similar Batters
1.Will Clark (902.2)
2.Matt Holliday (894.3)
3.John Olerud (885.6)
4.Moises Alou (879.2)
5.Magglio Ordonez (875.3)
6.Bob Johnson (863.0)
7.Bernie Williams (860.3)
8.Paul O'Neill (852.6)
9.Lance Berkman (851.6)
10.Ellis Burks (850.2)

My opinion -- a definite tier short. Thome, not enthusiastic about, but I guess you have to say yes to a guy with 600 HR if he isn't named Sosa or ARod.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

From Baseball Reference's Similarity Scores.
Similar Batters
1.Will Clark (902.2)
2.Matt Holliday (894.3)
3.John Olerud (885.6)
4.Moises Alou (879.2)
5.Magglio Ordonez (875.3)
6.Bob Johnson (863.0)
7.Bernie Williams (860.3)
8.Paul O'Neill (852.6)
9.Lance Berkman (851.6)
10.Ellis Burks (850.2)

My opinion -- a definite tier short. Thome, not enthusiastic about, but I guess you have to say yes to a guy with 600 HR if he isn't named Sosa or ARod.

Let's hear it for ol' Indian Bob, the pre-war Edgar Martinez (apparently).

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Let's hear it for ol' Indian Bob, the pre-war Edgar Martinez (apparently).

Except that Indian Bob was also one of the best defensive left fielder's of all time. He should be in the Hall before Martinez.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

From Baseball Reference's Similarity Scores.
Similar Batters
1.Will Clark (902.2)
2.Matt Holliday (894.3)
3.John Olerud (885.6)
4.Moises Alou (879.2)
5.Magglio Ordonez (875.3)
6.Bob Johnson (863.0)
7.Bernie Williams (860.3)
8.Paul O'Neill (852.6)
9.Lance Berkman (851.6)
10.Ellis Burks (850.2)

My opinion -- a definite tier short. Thome, not enthusiastic about, but I guess you have to say yes to a guy with 600 HR if he isn't named Sosa or ARod.

This is an instance where similarity score means very little if you ask me. Edgar put up an OPS over 1.000 5 times in his career, including a stretch of 3 seasons in a row. Will Clark never had an OPS over 1.000 over a full season. Neither did Holliday, Johnson, Bernie, or Berkman.

Ordonez put up a 1.000 OPS once, as did Alou, Olerud, and O'Neill (strike season).

Burks only accomplished the feat twice over a full season.

Martinez is better than all of them. His lifetime OPS is 933.

[clydepepper]

Anyone have a link to the tracker?

[Andrew1975]

.418 career OBP, which is 21st ALL TIME, and top 35 all time in OPS. Those statistics are very significant. To me, no question he belongs.

[perezfan]

"Anyone have a link to the tracker?"

Here you go....

75% is needed for Induction to the Hall.

At the time of this post, 239 ballots are in, which represents 57.5% of the total. Traditionally, the support levels drop a bit as the late ballots are tallied.

This is updated in real-time. Here is the link....

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...AAsz3uDsmqy_Vw

[baseball tourist]

Edgar fell short.

[rhettyeakley]

Edgar belongs.

The fact that there is even debate about the DH is ridiculous once we started to let Relief Pitchers into the HOF. A relief pitcher may only play in 40-50 games per season and may only pitch in 50-60 innings through that entire season. If that kind of "one-trick-pony" can get elected into the HOF so should a professional hitter.

[nat]

Similarity scores don't really mean anything. They were a fun toy Bill James came up with years ago, but they shouldn't be taken seriously. A better idea is to take a look at the players around him in WAR (and then we can talk about the DH penalty in the WAR formula and things like that).

Here you go:

73.
Miguel Cabrera 68.8

Tony Gwynn 68.8

75.
Al Simmons 68.7

76.
Ivan Rodriguez 68.4

77.
Carlton Fisk 68.3

Edgar Martinez 68.3

Eddie Murray 68.3

80.
Kenny Lofton 68.2

81.
Graig Nettles 68.0

82.
Fred Clarke 67.8

83.
Ryne Sandberg 67.5

84.
Ernie Banks 67.4

This is position-player only. 77th all-time, tied with Fisk and Murray. A few non-HOFers in this territory, but mostly guys who are in. There are interesting questions to ask about methodology, but by WAR Martinez looks like a comfortably second-tier Hall-of-Famer.

Curiously, Edgar does only a little bit better in oWAR (the offensive component of WAR). There he's 69th all-time, sandwiched between Rafael Palmeiro and Tony Gwynn.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by packs

This is an instance where similarity score means very little if you ask me. Edgar put up an OPS over 1.000 5 times in his career, including a stretch of 3 seasons in a row. Will Clark never had an OPS over 1.000 over a full season. Neither did Holliday, Johnson, Bernie, or Berkman.

???

Berkman had three seasons of 1.000 OPS - 2001, 2004, 2006. He also had a .982 and a .986.

Matt Holliday had one season over 1.000 - 2007.

Correct that Bernie Williams never had a 1.000 but he did have a .997.


Personally, I think Edgar should be in the Hall. Two batting titles, career OPS+ of 147. Yes, he hit "only" 309 homers. So what? Rogers Hornsby hit 301. Rickey Henderson hit 297 and is renowned for his OBP but his OBP was lower than Edgar's.

Yep, 'gar was one-dimensional. But when that one dimension is SO good, you can overlook it. And, let's be real - he could have played 1B if needed. But the Mariners had an all-time elite defensive 1B (who could also hit) in John Olerud, so Edgar played DH.

[parker1b2]

If we are going to go by OPS what about a guy like Fred McGriff who seems to get no love or the HOF.

McGriff: led the league once in OPS

2 times over 1.000
9 other times over .900

Martinez : led the league once in OPS

5 times over 1.000
3 other times over .900