My experience with LOTG

[barrysloate]

If someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.

[T205 GB]

Considering that the only AH I have ever received a package from in less than a week has been Sterling I personally think that the OP came here to slander Al, Jeff, and LOTG and should be liable for that. In the amount of time that this issue was handled in I am sure any of us would have been happy especially since its one of the larger Auction Houses. Does eBay not take just as long to settle a issue like this? The OP is probably pissed he didn't get the lot so he could resubmit for grade bumps and make money.

I consigned some cards to Sterling before Lee came to ownership. A tougher card was lost during the grading and it took almost 30 days to settle up. I allowed the AH to take every step possible to track the card down before I was contacted and just paid outright for the card based on market value. Now I could have came here and said all kinds of bad stuff but I can guarantee this is the first in 7 years this has ever been mentioned here. What I am saying is the OP and I will never have a transaction, and I truly hope LOTG auctions takes a stand since they did make it right in a timely professional manner.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Considering that the only AH I have ever received a package from in less than a week has been Sterling I personally think that the OP came here to slander Al, Jeff, and LOTG and should be liable for that.

Slander is something that is said orally, not written. Libel is when something defamatory is written. In either case, however, the statement(s) has to be false for slander or libel to apply.. Al came into this thread and said what the OP wrote was true regarding his winnings being lost. As far as the OP not receiving a check yet, how do you know it is not true?

That being said, I had a fabulous experience purchasing from LotG in the past and would not hesitate to do so in the future. Mistakes happen, although I understand why the original poster is upset.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/slander

[rainier2004]

So the situation sucks for the OP, paid, never got his lot which is what he really wanted.

I will also say that if you call Al he will talk to you. He will make things right and he will put the effort into running a professional business. Al has ben very clear both on the phone and on boards about him being a one man show which results in some longer times to ship. He hasn't hid this, lied or done anything but be straight up front about all this. He stays up all night monitoring the auction, creates all the invoices, packages the lots and mails them. This is called transparency and the hobby needs all of this it can get.

Patience is something we in the hobby could all use a little more of. Also directly dealing with the person in a private manner always seems to go a long ways to conflict resolution.

Like Jeff said, there are tons of felons, perverts, sex offenders and fraudsters involved in this hobby running AHs. To mu knowledge, Al is none of these...

We as people and collectors need to try harder to work things out IMO, no one is forcing anyone to spend their money. LOTG needs a little slack here, they run a professional business.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Like Jeff said, there are tons of felons, perverts, sex offenders and fraudsters involved in this hobby running AHs. To mu knowledge, Al is none of these...

I suspect Al is a pervert. Just a hunch.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.

Barry I do hope that the person that received the cards returns them. Sadly we both know that this is not how a lot of people are anymore

[T206Collector]

I sell groups of T206 cards on eBay every few years — I run up the mountain and then I sell, sell, sell. It’s apparently how I collect, I guess.

Anyway, when I sold a bunch of T206s on eBay this past summer, I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be. In addition, for the first time ever, I had two cases opened against me - one by a guy who was intent on a refund while also getting to keep my card (I won that case); and another by a guy who said a Beckett case cracked in shipping (I asked him to return the card for a full refund, he didn’t, he opened a case against me to ask for a partial refund and to get to keep the card - I settled that one, but have to say the evidence that the case cracked in shipping was not a compelling one).

Buyers seem to be jumping for help from third parties and social networks before trying to reasonably address easily resolved disputes. I have a whole new appreciation for what even the best auction houses must go through. Definitely not an easy gig. It would take outright fraud for me to air such grievances here.

Having said that, we live in the Yelp! world, with Amazon reviewers, and TripAdvisor experiences. That’s why these threads are so important today — you can leave a bad review, but if you have a great reputation this community will come immediately to defend you. If other collectors came out of the webisphere to share similar stories of lost shipments and delayed refunds, a different pattern would emerge than we’ve seen here.

[Bpm0014]

....it always surprises me that folks think the "best approach" to dealing with customer service issues is to jump to social media to vent their frustrations and share their experiences

I don't even know Al, but couldn't agree more with the above statement.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I sell groups of T206 cards on eBay every few years — I run up the mountain and then I sell, sell, sell. It’s apparently how I collect, I guess.

Anyway, when I sold a bunch of T206s on eBay this past summer, I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be. In addition, for the first time ever, I had two cases opened against me - one by a guy who was intent on a refund while also getting to keep my card (I won that case); and another by a guy who said a Beckett case cracked in shipping (I asked him to return the card for a full refund, he didn’t, he opened a case against me to ask for a partial refund and to get to keep the card - I settled that one, but have to say the evidence that the case cracked in shipping was not a compelling one).

Buyers seem to be jumping for help from third parties and social networks before trying to reasonably address easily resolved disputes. I have a whole new appreciation for what even the best auction houses must go through. Definitely not an easy gig. It would take outright fraud for me to air such grievances here.

Having said that, we live in the Yelp! world, with Amazon reviewers, and TripAdvisor experiences. That’s why these threads are so important today — you can leave a bad review, but if you have a great reputation this community will come immediately to defend you. If other collectors came out of the webisphere to share similar stories of lost shipments and delayed refunds, a different pattern would emerge than we’ve seen here.

I agree with both points here. There are a lof of ebay buyers out there that try to profit by submitting false claims and taking advantage of sellers. And review sites like yelp are ruined my millennials leaving bad reviews because an unreasonable request wasn't honored, or they were too easily offended.

However, in this specific case it seems the opposite is happening. Most of the replies I have read are from members quickly jumping to Al's defense because of his reputation. I mentioned earlier I would not have been pleased with the way this was handled and the delays had I been the buyer. In reading Al's response again the offer of compensation is also less than I would have hoped. A credit for a future auction for completely losing an order? My reaction to this would have been similar to that of the OP. Especially if this was my first experience with LOTG, or any auction house.

A more appropriate response would have been something like a full refund, and an offer to wave the buyer's premium on the OP's next purchase for the inconvenience. An honest mistake was made, and they certainly can happen to anyone. But something more should have been done to make this right.

[orly57]

One of the issues here is "what does it mean to be 'made whole?'" If you owe me $500 and repay it, I am made whole. If you owe me 11 t206s and simply refund what I paid, I am not made whole. I don't want the money. If I did, I wouldn't have spent it on 11 t206's. Unless the cards are found, which I suspect they will be, the OP will never be made whole. I think Jesse's idea of waiving BP on the next purchase is a way of, not only returning the money, but also acknowledging that a mistake was made. Merely returning the money shows no efforts to encourage future business, and makes it seem as if he's been made whole when he has not. Again, this is NOT a shot at Al or LOTG, but if we are having this conversation, then we should address the concept of being made whole and what steps a business should take to make up for mistakes if they intend to keep their Sterling reputation.

[botport]

First off to Al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that I put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this I commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should I have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, I am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because I do not want to bump this thread again.

[botport]

As promised....

[T205 GB]

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

No its not the equivalent of leaving negative feedback and IMO its more on the lines of slander/liable(what ever you want to say). All your sniffling and whining and not once did your sorry ass take into consideration that the AH not only had to pay you back what you spent, they lost a consignment, and they now will have to pay the consignee what you paid also to settle up on that side. This also goes to the guys that think more compensation is due! Put the shoe on your own foot and wear it then see what song you play.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.


Al made this right and for you(in a very timely manner) compared to any other auction house out there. Ask Brian or Rob how REA would have handled this. I am willing to put money on it that you would still be waiting for everything to take its due process(as it should) and had you came on here about them you probably would be getting it a lot worse! Then you come here sniffling and whining like a "millennial crybaby that didn't get his way" as someone said earlier. Be a fucking man, pull up you panties, and move on! If this is a "HONEST MISTAKE" as you say then why do you continue dragging Al/LOTG through the coals? Crucify you? For a mistake that can have volumes of repercussion against LOTGA. You must have lost your ever loving mind somewhere.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

No its not the equivalent of leaving negative feedback and IMO its more on the lines of slander/liable(what ever you want to say). All your sniffling and whining and not once did your sorry ass take into consideration that the AH not only had to pay you back what you spent, they lost a consignment, and they now will have to pay the consignee what you paid also to settle up on that side. This also goes to the guys that think more compensation is due! Put the shoe on your own foot and wear it then see what song you play.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.


Al made this right and for you(in a very timely manner) compared to any other auction house out there. Ask Brian or Rob how REA would have handled this. I am willing to put money on it that you would still be waiting for everything to take its due process(as it should) and had you came on here about them you probably would be getting it a lot worse! Then you come here sniffling and whining like a "millennial crybaby that didn't get his way" as someone said earlier. Be a fucking man, pull up you panties, and move on! If this is a "HONEST MISTAKE" as you say then why do you continue dragging Al/LOTG through the coals? Crucify you? For a mistake that can have volumes of repercussion against LOTGA. You must have lost your ever loving mind somewhere.

Andrew, I've only have had good experiences with Al and LOTG. However, the OP has not been made "right" yet, as he has still not received his refund check. And what he's said is obviously not slander or libel since Al has admitted to everything that the OP said. You've come closer to slander/libel with your statements than the OP has.

[orly57]

1. Slander or libel is only applicable when what you are alleging is false. Since Al verified it to be true, it is neither slander nor libel.
2. Calling him a whiner or crybaby and telling him to put his pants on, or whatever caveman comment you made, only shows your lack of objectivity here.
3. If you can have empathy for one side, why can't you have it for the other? I personally think it's unfortunate for both sides. The OP appears to be a decent guy, and we know Al is beloved.
4. If you bought a nice card or cards and they were lost, I doubt you would handle it very well. I don't know you, and won't judge you by one post, but the tone of your post belies a man who is less than understanding, and who would flip his lid were one of his precious t205s lost by a business whose job it is to sell and deliver those items.
5. Unfortunately, we live in a political climate where we are forced to take sides. A climate where you are either with us or against us. A climate where miles of gray area are overlooked for the few inches of partisan territory. It's rather sad. And it is particularly sad when it spills over into a forum of guys who all share the same passion, and should ostensibly, understand and help eachother out.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by botport

... In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

A few things cross my mind in reading this.

1. You're likely not one of the cool kids in the schoolyard, so you have less credibility that LOTG. Unfortunately some folks have immediately jumped on you, based on LOTG's reputation (and your lack of one).

2. I bid in a lot of auctions, but I don't know if I ever have from LOTG. Therefore I don't have a lot of experience with Al. I do know LOTG is one of the cool kids, as there are plenty of positive comments about Al and the company he runs. Therefore when I opened this thread, I was somewhat intrigued as to the issue.

3. I don't think either party is a dick, but it is possible that two parties have a different expectation of what is reasonable. And that's OK. Right now we are gutting our kitchen, and I am having an issue with the cabinet guys to the tune of $500 (which is not much given the $12,000 worth of cabinets we are putting in). Neither of us are being dicks, but we are not agreeing as to the proper resolution.

4. Maybe someone else doesn't have the cards, and Al's dog ate them, or the cleaning crew stole them, or they were thrown out with a bunch of other garbage he had.

5. People, if you're gonna post legal opinions on a situation, learn the difference between "liable" and "libel". Otherwise you look like the doofus.

[TUM301]

Paging Sgt. Hulka, Sgt. Hulka to the front of the store please.

[botport]

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

A few things cross my mind in reading this.



3. I don't think either party is a dick, but it is possible that two parties have a different expectation of what is reasonable. And that's OK. Right now we are gutting our kitchen, and I am having an issue with the cabinet guys to the tune of $500 (which is not much given the $12,000 worth of cabinets we are putting in). Neither of us are being dicks, but we are not agreeing as to the proper resolution.

5. People, if you're gonna post legal opinions on a situation, learn the difference between "liable" and "libel". Otherwise you look like the doofus.

You do realize cabinets are just boxes........baseball cards are just card board....now if baseball cards were cardboard boxes we would be on to something..

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by botport

first off to al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that i put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this i commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should i have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this i feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) i received my auction winnings.
2) i was reimbursed in what i felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since i have posted this thread it has been suggested that i be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give lotg a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what i did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, i am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because i do not want to bump this thread again.

+1000

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by botport

First off to Al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that I put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this I commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should I have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, I am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because I do not want to bump this thread again.

Always nice to see a happy ending but the OP is getting crushed and I can’t comprehend it.

Happy New Year 🎊

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

A more appropriate response would have been something like a full refund, and an offer to wave the buyer's premium on the OP's next purchase for the inconvenience. An honest mistake was made, and they certainly can happen to anyone. But something more should have been done to make this right.

I really like that idea. I have no doubt that the entire situation was just an honest mistake, but something like waiving the buyer's premium (up to a certain amount) would have been a really decent way of apologizing to the buyer. Seems like that would have been a way of keeping a customer instead of losing one, which is apparently what has happened.

[Frank A]

It all boils down to one thing. The buyer paid for the cards he won but never got them and I guess as of yet has not been sent a refund check yet. I don't care who the auction house is or how good a guy he is supposed to be, I would be pissed off. I hope the buyer gets this settled quickly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH? The rest of this will be worked out between the OP and Al and my guess is with no hard feelings for the future, but if someone is just keeping the cards as a bank error in their favor that truly sucks.

[Exhibitman]

I can feel for both sides here, as I've been on both sides.

As a bidder/buyer I expect to get my winnings in a timely manner. I would definitely be disappointed if I did not. If the AH explained that something is lost and they are trying to track it down, I'd expect them to take a few days and do that. I had it happen to me recently where an eBay seller mixed up two sets of cards and sent my Brooklyn Dodgers TI set to the winner of the Yankees TI set and vice versa. I returned the Yankees set immediately. Asshat Yankees buyer kept my Dodgers cards (my set was more valuable and sold for more due to the # of HOFers in it including early Drysdale and Koufax cards). And it was the seller's fault, 100%. So I get the frustration, believe me; instead of adding a desirable Koufax to my collection I got a refund. But the seller took care of it. What burns me to this day is that some jerk kept the mistaken set.

As a seller, this has happened to me a couple of times with eBay lots. Each time I've had to go through my collection and storage, and the item was just misfiled or filed other than where I thought it should be. Only once has it gone completely AWOL. So I get allowing the seller a bit of time to find a missing item.

Now, in terms of Al's saintly nature, I am biased because he is my friend (heck, I camp at his table at the National), but let me give you all another story. I lost the check from my last consignment. I let Al know and he immediately cut me a replacement check. It took a week to get here: mailed on the 26th, arrived a week later. Weather and holidays. A little perspective is warranted here. The holidays and a bomb cyclone can really f*** up a business schedule and mails. If the check arrives shortly, I hope the OP will post the envelope and check here (sans ID info) to show when it was cut and mailed, as represented.

[h2oya311]

I’ve bought and consigned items with Al in the past. He was very fair when it came to an item I had consigned that was subsequently lost (before getting auctioned off). All it takes is an email and a little patience. I recall that his bank is a small little credit union or something to that nature, so checks aren’t always delivered expeditiously. If he said he issued you a refund, that’s exactly what he did.

Given the number of t206 collectors on this board, whoever decides to re-sell those cards that don’t rightfully belong to him, I hope this comes back to bite him in the a$$.

Also, imagine if you were in Als shoes and trying to find the missing cards. I’d much rather wait as long as possible to find them (and hope a person came forward with the extra cards) and later send them along to the buyer with an apology / auction credit for the delay. The alternative would be to issue a refund and have to re-run the cards at auction if they came back later (assuming the buyer no longer wanted them). If said cards then sell for $700, now you’ve got an angry consignor if you don’t make him whole as well. What a mess!

That said, while I wouldn’t go about things the way the OP did, I certainly can see his POV, especially if this is a first-time xp with LOTG. Hopefully the comments made by board members will quell any fears you may have that you won’t be getting the refund you deserve. You will.

[Chris-Counts]

"I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be ..."

Perhaps it is simply a reflection of a world obsessed with social media and immediate gratification, but I, too, am surprised by how quickly some folks go into public intervention mode. I've had a couple buyers open disputes without even asking me to resolve their issues. Last year I bought something off eBay that was incorrectly sent to another eBay buyer's home. I received the other buyer's item, so I simply mailed it to him. But my package was inadvertently sent to the other buyer's summer home, so I had to wait a few months until the snow melted until I got my item. I was disappointed by the wait, but it passed quickly ...

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

if someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.

+1000