Another Probstein123 black eye

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by CW

On one hand, I can see what you guys above are saying about the onus being on PSA to fix this. But on the other hand, if this item was in REA and it was brought to Brian's attention, you know damn well that he would be proactive and at least contact PSA (and more likely he would pull the item after investigating).

As David (drcy) said above, when it's this cut and dry, and the card is serial numbered and undeniably altered, the AH should take some action other than throwing their hands up and saying there's nothing they can do about it because it came from a forum.

actually, go back and look at the REA fall auction, specifically the high grade 52Topps (PSA 7s and 8s) that were sold. I was surprised how many time REA description pointed out the possibility of a trim. when was the last time an eBay seller included that kind of info in a description. When people here talk about how buying on ebay is so much better than dealing with an AH (one that does things right, at least), I shake my head. If you buy all your high dollar cards on eBay instead of an auction house that knows what it is doing AND has integrity, then you are just treading water until you get ripped off.

[drcy]

That people don't think that an auction house should remove, or change the description so that it's accurate, an item that is a fake or misidentified-- in particular when the auction house knows it's a fake or misidentified--, says a lot about the current auction system. If hobby standard practices overrule what should be common sense and what would be considered clear ethical behavior to anyone and everyone outside the hobby, it says the standard practices are bad and the system has been corrupted.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by drcy

That people don't think that an auction house should remove, or change the description so that it's accurate, an item that is a fake or misidentified-- in particular when the auction house knows it's a fake or misidentified--, says a lot about the current auction system. If hobby standard practices overrule what should be common sense and what would be considered clear ethical behavior to anyone and everyone outside the hobby, it says the standard practices are bad.

And how does Probstein know this, because someone sent him an email? Should he take this opinion over the opinion of the largest grading service? REA is very knowledgeable; they can intelligently opine on condition. Probstein probably knows as much about cards as your grocery's butcher.

[drcy]

I wasn't singling out a seller or a particular auction (I haven't looked at the blowout thread or the images), and will leave it to situations of clear and convincing proof.

[rainier2004]

I think comparing Probstein to REA is both funny and sad. REA is not only the leading AH, they have also shown an immense amount of knowledge and integrity and if anyone knows Dwyer they know this is how he does things. He also has an immense knowledge as one of the leaders in the industry and his results show this.

Probstein is an ebay seller, like others said he is peddling PSAs opinion, not his own. It would be nice if he pulled it, but on what information? A bunch of guys are complaining but PSA graded it? My bet is will side with PSA 100 out of a 100 times as his business is built on this. This isn't war_eagle we are talking about, Probstein doesn't trim his cards and has never been accused of that. PSA let this get by, their warranty will be carried out at this point.

Probstein could pull it but PSA could also do a better job and never had this happen in the first place...you know, their job the premier TPG. Maybe Joe O. should focus more on training at this point than expanding his business part its current means. TPGs are far from perfect but that's not the standard we hold them to.

[slidekellyslide]

I think it’s pretty hilarious that a card with autographs of two of the greatest basketball players of all time on it is suddenly garbage because it’s now one millimeter shorter than it was yesterday. Not to say that trimming the card was an okay thing to do, I just hadn’t realized that those cards were actually given a grade beyond authenticating the autographs.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I think it’s pretty hilarious that a card with autographs of two of the greatest basketball players of all time on it is suddenly garbage because it’s now one millimeter shorter than it was yesterday. Not to say that trimming the card was an okay thing to do, I just hadn’t realized that those cards were actually given a grade beyond authenticating the autographs.

Yea I agree with the sentiment here. I knew they could be graded, but wouldn't have thought the difference in value from 7 to 9 would justify trimming and resubmitting the card. The value of this card would seem to be the on card autos of Jordan and LeBron, plus the limited number at 25.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I think comparing Probstein to REA is both funny and sad. REA is not only the leading AH, they have also shown an immense amount of knowledge and integrity and if anyone knows Dwyer they know this is how he does things. He also has an immense knowledge as one of the leaders in the industry and his results show this.

Probstein is an ebay seller, like others said he is peddling PSAs opinion, not his own. It would be nice if he pulled it, but on what information? A bunch of guys are complaining but PSA graded it? My bet is will side with PSA 100 out of a 100 times as his business is built on this. This isn't war_eagle we are talking about, Probstein doesn't trim his cards and has never been accused of that. PSA let this get by, their warranty will be carried out at this point.

Probstein could pull it but PSA could also do a better job and never had this happen in the first place...you know, their job the premier TPG. Maybe Joe O. should focus more on training at this point than expanding his business part its current means. TPGs are far from perfect but that's not the standard we hold them to.

+1....Totally agree. To compare this guy with REA is an absolute joke.....

[CW]

To anyone surprised or amused by the REA/Probstein comparison:

Both companies are movers of high volumes of cards which are consigned to them by collectors. They may not react the same way, but they provide an identical service, albeit through different venues. They are counterparts. Comparisons will be made. Expectations will be set.

If one of those companies (REA) sets a standard of basic ethical practice in the business, it is not out of the ordinary to think that other auction houses should follow suit when an altered card is brought to their attention (ie. investigating and at least pulling the auction and returning the card to the consignor if the alteration is blatant).

Of course, other auction houses may not follow suit (Probstein, in this instance), but it is neither funny, sad, or an "absolute joke" to make the comparison and expect similar ethical business practices.

I am also not naive enough to think the above will happen, but as a consumer you can expect it. When it doesn't happen, then you complain or criticize which is why this thread was started.

And I just happened to use REA as an example. As another, when Goodwin was alerted about a possibly bad PSA graded '52 Mantle in one of their auctions, they sent it to PSA for review, found it to be a compromised slab, and they pulled the auction.