John Rogers Sentenced

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Terrible?? Based on what... "actually"?

Perhaps "terrible" is a bit strong, but let's see, Rogers Hornsby

1) was bigoted, anti-Semitic, and, at least for a short period, a member of the KKK

2) was extremely unfriendly and difficult to get along with. He ignored or disparaged the majority of his teammates, and so tended to room alone, eat by himself, and shower, dress and exit the clubhouse without speaking a word to his fellow players.

3) was so unlikeable that despite his prodigious talents, he moved teams more than 14 times over the course of his playing and managerial career, and was basically consigned to manage in the minors for over a decade because Commissioner Landis reportedly blacklisted him from MLB positions due to his personality and gambling problems. At one point as a manager, Hornsby was fined for punching an opposing manager and knocking him out during an on-field argument. When asked why he hit him, Hornsby said, "I wasn't making any progress talking to him." At another point, his players were so happy that he'd been fired that they paid for and gave the owner a three-foot high trophy with the engraving, "To Bill Veeck: For the greatest play since the Emancipation Proclamation.”

4) was an inveterate gambler who lost so much money betting on horses that he lost several jobs because of it, and tried to make up for his gambling debts by cheating the IRS. He was subsequently charged with understating his income.

5) cheated on his first wife with a married woman, and was sued by the husband of the woman he was cheating with for breaking up their marriage. Hornsby later married and divorced again, and then took up with a woman who, a few years later, committed suicide. While it is unclear if Hornsby had anything directly to do with the suicide, one probably should assume that his personality didn't help matters.

6) was estranged from his son Rogers Jr. for most of his life, and made the comment that he was glad another son, Billy, had been released early on by a minor league team because, in Hornsby's view, Billy wasn't a "real player," and "imagine how I would have felt, seeing the Hornsby name down in the batting averages with the pitchers"

7). According to Bill James, "If a contest is ever held to determine the biggest horse's ass in baseball history, there are really only seven men, four of them players, who could hope to compete at that level. The four players are Hornsby, Ty Cobb, Dick Allen, and Hal Chase. I think I might choose Hornsby."

[trdcrdkid]

This is from the SABR bio linked to above, on Hornsby's managerial stint with the St. Louis Browns in 1952:

"Hornsby lasted only 51 games before Veeck gave him the boot. During spring training, he quickly got cross-ways with the legendary Satchel Paige, who liked to keep his own training rules.102 The club got off to a strong start but soon faded to seventh place, as Hornsby became more and more irascible.103 The acerbic Hornsby had general contempt for pitchers and continued his long-standing practice of making pitching changes from the dugout.104 According to Ned Garver, he was completely aloof and wouldn’t speak to a player except to ridicule him. Once in a hotel elevator, Hornsby derided Garver for walking the opposing pitcher in the game that day. The problem was that it had been Cliff Fannin, not Garver, who had done the deed.105

When Veeck got rid of the Rajah on June 8, the players were thrilled and presented their owner with a three-foot trophy that they had inscribed, “To Bill Veeck: For the greatest play since the Emancipation Proclamation.” Pitcher Gene Bearden said, “They ought to declare a national holiday in St. Louis.”106 Outfielder Bob Nieman was quoted as saying that “the news was like lifting a hundred-pound sack of sand from each player’s back.”"

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

This is from the SABR bio linked to above, on Hornsby's managerial stint with the St. Louis Browns in 1952:

"Hornsby lasted only 51 games before Veeck gave him the boot. During spring training, he quickly got cross-ways with the legendary Satchel Paige, who liked to keep his own training rules.102 The club got off to a strong start but soon faded to seventh place, as Hornsby became more and more irascible.103 The acerbic Hornsby had general contempt for pitchers and continued his long-standing practice of making pitching changes from the dugout.104 According to Ned Garver, he was completely aloof and wouldn’t speak to a player except to ridicule him. Once in a hotel elevator, Hornsby derided Garver for walking the opposing pitcher in the game that day. The problem was that it had been Cliff Fannin, not Garver, who had done the deed.105

When Veeck got rid of the Rajah on June 8, the players were thrilled and presented their owner with a three-foot trophy that they had inscribed, “To Bill Veeck: For the greatest play since the Emancipation Proclamation.” Pitcher Gene Bearden said, “They ought to declare a national holiday in St. Louis.”106 Outfielder Bob Nieman was quoted as saying that “the news was like lifting a hundred-pound sack of sand from each player’s back.”"

So he was blunt and didn't get along with people and players, often speaking his mind without sugarcoating?? That's ALL you could come up with from your morally superior perch? With all due respect David, this is just more of the pathetic painting of past individuals with today's delusional, politically correct brush. Am I saying he was a great person? No. I can't, because I, like you, have never actually met the man, and hence, shouldn't make any hypocritical attempts at judgement. Is he a PRICK as you contend?? If it's to be based on the minuscule amount of so-called damaging information you provide... then it's a resounding NO.

It's also funny that you conveniently left out this part of the write-up...

"On the other hand, Hornsby had a real fondness for children, working with thousands over many years. He was a more successful minor-league than major-league manager, suggesting that he had more patience at that level. But as a player he was so good that any all-time team without him at second base is highly suspect. The Rajah was indeed royalty with a bat in his hands"


plus... you did see that I added the images I did to lighten the mood on this thread right?
It wasn't done to make any kind of statement regarding the character of said individuals pictured.. that should be obvious to anyone.