RMY Auction - Conlon Prints

[Snapolit1]

I hear what you guys are saying, but Henry is not the
Same as one of you expressing an opinion. He is THE opinion in the field. For THE opinion in the field to be grading stuff that he is then going to put up for sale... we’ll Ive expressed my opinion. No offense to any of you, but none of your opinions are the be all and end all. His are.

[Snapolit1]

Whether something is a type 1 photo is an opinion. It is not a fact. In some cases there is good evidence and in some cases it is sketchy. It is an educated opinion. If any of you are 100% sure looking at scans that somethingnisna Type 1 photograph, well more power to you.
Steve A. posted a Gehrig photo here last month and some of the most learned opinions on this board disagreed as to whether is was Type 1, 2 or 3. It’s not so simple.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Whether something is a type 1 photo is an opinion. It is not a fact. In some cases there is good evidence and in some cases it is sketchy. It is an educated opinion. If any of you are 100% sure looking at scans that somethingnisna Type 1 photograph, well more power to you.
Steve A. posted a Gehrig photo here last month and some of the most learned opinions on this board disagreed as to whether is was Type 1, 2 or 3. It’s not so simple.

1) "Whether something is a type 1 photo is an opinion. It is not a fact."
This blanket statement is WRONG Imo I, in fact, think photos are one of the things in the hobby that can be authenticated the tightest.
2)”If any of you are 100% sure looking at scans that something isna Type 1 photograph, well more power to you. “
THIS IS A SCENAREO ONLINE-diff than above. There is no way to tell 100 percent online I would agree. You can make educated conclusions but with fake stamps, fake aging of paper,,etc.. I would agree. Pictures can also be photo shopped or manipulated. this of course domes not go fir photo authentication in general.. just online.

If you think the photo hobby is so misguided.. why are you collecting the stuff? Why not collect something else that is more defined like.. cards, game used and autographs... yikes

I just don't get the negativity. Since you have singled out Henry.. can you give an example in the last auction where he was wrong or that he abused some magical power for his benefit? As stated, No one bats 100 percent.. but some have much higher averages

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

1) "Whether something is a type 1 photo is an opinion. It is not a fact."
This blanket statement is WRONG Imo I, in fact, think photos are one of the things in the hobby that can be authenticated the tightest.
2)”If any of you are 100% sure looking at scans that something isna Type 1 photograph, well more power to you. “
THIS IS A SCENAREO ONLINE-diff than above. There is no way to tell 100 percent online I would agree. You can make educated conclusions but with fake stamps, fake aging of paper,,etc.. I would agree. Pictures can also be photo shopped or manipulated. this of course domes not go fir photo authentication in general.. just online.

If you think the photo hobby is so misguided.. why are you collecting the stuff? Why not collect something else that is more defined like.. cards, game used and autographs... yikes

I just don't get the negativity. Since you have singled out Henry.. can you give an example in the last auction where he was wrong or that he abused some magical power for his benefit? As stated, No one bats 100 percent.. but some have much higher averages

I can't point a single thing Henry has done wrong in his life. Never said I could. But I don't think the basic idea of him grading his own cards for sale is a good one. I think many others agree.

I think Type 1 is an opinion. Whatever. Until someone does carbon 12 testing on a photograph it's an opinion in my book. maybe a very learned opinion.

Negative on the hobby? Nope. Just a realist. It's an imperfect endeavor like everything else. I'm not drinking the kool aid that anyone's opinion on authenticity of a photo or a card is scientitifc truth. It's an opinion. If Henry doesn't make the occasional mistake he's the first human being in the history of the world who can say that. I tip my hat to him.

I once sat through a trial where probably the two most credentialed experts in the US took opposite sides on whether a signature was authentic on a rare document. Two guys who have written books too. These are opinions.

Ben, you get insanely defensive anytime anyone says anything even remotely challenging or questioning about type 1 photos. Relax buddy. It's a hobby. We're not rescuing starving children here or curing rare cancers.

[Forever Young]

...#ufta

Insanely defensive? Nope.. just defending truth, justice and the type 1 photo way. Merry Christmas

[Snapolit1]

Enough. Done Expressed my opinion. Happy holidays.

[Exhibitman]

Well, Scott...For boxing cards my opinion is pretty much the opinion (the TPGs use my book or call me) so I have some experience with this exact situation. Every time I sell an item I am expressing my opinion on it and to the small coterie of boxing collectors it carries weight even with self interest, because I am rigorous in my research and honest with my opinion and people know it. That said it is still an opinion and opinions are like buttholes; we all have them. Except, apparently, Kim Jong Un.

[pherbener]

I just got the Conlon Feller. Never expected it before Christmas!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I just got the Conlon Feller. Never expected it before Christmas!

Amazing shot with the shadows.

[pherbener]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Amazing shot with the shadows.

It really is... Great image!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I just got the Conlon Feller. Never expected it before Christmas!

Terrific Feller photo, Paul. Congrats!

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I just got the Conlon Feller. Never expected it before Christmas!

Wow. I do not remember it being THAT spectacular in the auction....what a piece! Nice job.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I just got the Conlon Feller. Never expected it before Christmas!

That is something - making me think I should have gone all in on it. Glad it found an appreciative home.

[pherbener]

Thanks Ben and Scott!!

[Bicem]

Beautiful Feller.

Santa Benny not so much.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Well, Scott...For boxing cards my opinion is pretty much the opinion (the TPGs use my book or call me) so I have some experience with this exact situation. Every time I sell an item I am expressing my opinion on it and to the small coterie of boxing collectors it carries weight even with self interest, because I am rigorous in my research and honest with my opinion and people know it. That said it is still an opinion and opinions are like buttholes; we all have them. Except, apparently, Kim Jong Un.

I think we are in agreement. And if you chose to issue an Loa for each of your cards you sold, stating that it was authentic, I guess some here would cry "foul". I suppose you would have to secretly include the Loa with the card when you shipped it, but not mention it in the sale. Then the buyer could use it for resell and no one here would complain.

[pherbener]

Thanks Scott!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I think we are in agreement. And if you chose to issue an Loa for each of your cards you sold, stating that it was authentic, I guess some here would cry "foul". I suppose you would have to secretly include the Loa with the card when you shipped it, but not mention it in the sale. Then the buyer could use it for resell and no one here would complain.

How about a double secret LOA?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

No offense to any of you, but none of your opinions are the be all and end all. His are.

That is only true if, as a potential buyer, you think it is true. As long as you have an opinion one way or the other as to his expertise, then this loa stuff is irrelevant. It's the same for Rhys' buyers and the same for mine or David's or yours or anyone else's. That PSA LOA is only magical if a buyer thinks it is. (It is not magical to me, but Henry's expertise is somewhat - the two just happen to be tied together).

But I have to admit that it is very frustrating to be absolutely positive you are right about something, and have people question you, especially if you are more than willing to consult others in the field when you are unsure about something. I'm sure Henry is that way; however, as you say, very few ever question his opinion.

[Snapolit1]

Well to that I’d say it’s not my opinion at all. It’s the markets opinion. If there is a Babe Ruth 1918 Red Sox portrait that Henry deems Type 1, it is a $30K picture. Maybe more. If Henry says it’s Type 3 it’s a $700 picture. That’s the reality of the Marketplace. See it happen every month.

[Snapolit1]

Appreciate your views a lot. I stand by mine. We all offer opinions on stuff that we sell. And most of you guys know more than I do. But none of you move the market. If I had to succinctly state my opinion it would be this:

If someone is broadly recognized as an expert in authenticating or grading collectibles, there is at least the appearance of a potential conflict of interest where they authenticate/grade items they personally own and plan to offer for sale. It's not a great practice. Regardless of how upstanding the person is.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If someone is broadly recognized as an expert in authenticating or grading collectibles, there is at least the appearance of a potential conflict of interest where they authenticate/grade items they personally own and plan to offer for sale. It's not a great practice. Regardless of how upstanding the person is.

Agreed regarding grading of anything, not authentication of photos. Authentication of some other items could also be a problem.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Well to that I’d say it’s not my opinion at all. It’s the markets opinion. If there is a Babe Ruth 1918 Red Sox portrait that Henry deems Type 1, it is a $30K picture. Maybe more. If Henry says it’s Type 3 it’s a $700 picture. That’s the reality of the Marketplace. See it happen every month.

Not ness. true, Ben himself said the recent Ruth by Henry went for a steal, if he is the be all end all wouldn't it have obtained top dollar and not went for what Ben feels is below retail?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Not ness. true, Ben himself said the recent Ruth by Henry went for a steal, if he is the be all end all wouldn't it have obtained top dollar and not went for what Ben feels is below retail?

I never said it was a steal.. I said I thought it would go for more. It is a documented 1920, single, in your face batting photo and large at that. If you know Ruth photos... you know these type of attributes are rare. It is a great piece for what it is worth.
Somehow, a great thread about sharing pickups and stories turned negative. It is a damn shame.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Somehow, a great thread about sharing pickups and stories turned negative. It is a damn shame.

^
|_____Ben said something I did was GREAT!!!!!

(Now I don't even care if anyone disagrees with my opinion)

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Wish I picked up some Conlons! They were all so nice. I just stayed with the stuff I know and picked up a few nice photos.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Well to that I’d say it’s not my opinion at all. It’s the markets opinion. If there is a Babe Ruth 1918 Red Sox portrait that Henry deems Type 1, it is a $30K picture. Maybe more. If Henry says it’s Type 3 it’s a $700 picture. That’s the reality of the Marketplace. See it happen every month.

If it isn't your opinion then you shouldn't buy photos he authenticates. If it is everyone else's opinion then they should. He is benefiting from a reputation he built. I see no problem with that.

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I hear what you guys are saying, but Henry is not the
Same as one of you expressing an opinion. He is THE opinion in the field. For THE opinion in the field to be grading stuff that he is then going to put up for sale... we’ll Ive expressed my opinion. No offense to any of you, but none of your opinions are the be all and end all. His are.

I appreciate what Henry Yee has done to build and advance our hobby. Henry’s early auctions were instrumental in showing the desirability and value of great vintage photos. It seemed that each new auction would bring in more $$$. The $$$ pushed for more exploration into archives. More and more super photos were rediscovered, sold and sold again. The prices continue to climb. I don’t think there is any doubt about Henry’s positive influence on the hobby. That being said, I feel that Henry Yee is an opinion in the photo field. I don’t feel that he is the opinion in the field. There are others with deep experience and expertise regarding photo format, paper stock, production means, etc. It isn’t just the sellers who are the experts. There are many collectors who really know their stuff as well. Henry’s opinion isn’t “be all and end all.”
Regarding whether it is appropriate for Henry to sell the photos he authenticates, I ask why not? Auction houses do it. Other collectors do it. It is just an opinion. If a seller also wants to assign a grade to a photo that they are selling, that is fine too. Authentication and grading are just opinions.