OT: Ohtani to the Angels

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

I think the criticism for Pujols is harsh. He had out of this world numbers with STL and got an Albatross contract - fair. But into his late 30's you'd expect a steep decline in a steroid free era. How many guys have more Runs Batted In since Pujols joined the Angels in 2012? I looked at his numbers 105, 64 (hurt played 99 games), 105, 95, 119, 101. So he's driven in 589 runs over the past 6 seasons. Nelson Cruz 591 - so there is one guy. I'm sure there are a couple of more but I am sure not many. At least there is production from the guy and he's not a total bust. I realize I am picking one category but driving in runs is a pretty important stat for a guy you stick in the middle of your lineup 3/4 hitter type.

I'm not a huge fan of all of the advanced metrics, but it's telling that Pujols since 2013 has been a negative WAR guy. In 2017 alone he was a -4 WAR. So RBI are just one stat but far from the whole picture of Pujols in the past few years....

[packs]

Ohtani isn't even signed for that much money so I don't think it's fair to lump him in with Gary Mathews Jr. Even if he's a middle of the rotation pitcher, he's making the league minimum. Smart signing.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I am a firm believer of numbers do not lie.

Albert Pujols is one of the greatest hitters of all time, however he was on the juice.

Why did St. Louis let him go?

St. Louis is one of those teams that in my opinion make a lot more good moves than bad ones.

They knew something was going on.

Here are his walk numbers from 2005 through 2010

2005: 97
2006: 92
2007: 99
2008: 104
2009: 115
2010: 103

Pujols is clearly seeing the ball extremely well.

Now you can make the argument that he is being pitched around, however he showed major power 2001-2004 yet averages under 80 walks.

Now fast forward to 2011...

61 Walks?

Then they do not re-sign him?

Then his walk numbers go as follows...

2012: 52
2013: 40
2014: 48
2015: 50
2016: 49
2017: 37

Along with the decline in walks came a decline in batting average.

One thing steroids sure is good at is improving your vision and hand eye.

Some are going to say no way no way this guy was never on steroids etc, but just remember... how many people thought Manny was on the juice?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

One thing steroids sure is good at is improving your vision and hand eye

I just have to ask because I am trying to interpret this, is this a serious statement?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I just have to ask because I am trying to interpret this, is this a serious statement?

There have been studies done to prove this. Also Sports illustrated did a cover on bonds du
Using the whole controversy and the first thing on top the list of things it could help with is vision.

As you get older the skin around your yes gets looser and high tightens them back up.

Plus friends of mine in college all did it for the baseball team and all attested to everything slowing down and becoming clearer.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

There have been studies done to prove this. Also Sports illustrated did a cover on bonds du
Using the whole controversy and the first thing on top the list of things it could help with is vision.

As you get older the skin around your yes gets looser and high tightens them back up.

Plus friends of mine in college all did it for the baseball team and all attested to everything slowing down and becoming clearer.

That last sentence is exactly how Dock Ellis described greenies during the 71 series run.

As for HGH it is a completely different item than steroids and helps heal and reverse aging. A 14 year old would likely have more hgh naturally than you if you injected. If lifting your eyelids bettered sight provably, eyelifts would be a covered procedure on your insurance.

As for anabolics, I did them from 23 to 33. Not the greatest decision, but it helped in my line of work (not sports) and there is no connection to hand eye or vision in the world. Mass, strength and healing speed...yes.

If they helped in that fashion, the level of incredible athletes would be exponential. Identifying athletes by saying that is a trait is only because you think of the ones that were outed because they were big figures. You are ignoring the bench guys with more drive to use. Imagine the pressure to heal quickly if you will likely be waived and on the street if it's an easy task to just call someone up or hit the wire.

I am of the belief that the majority of athletes from the 60s till recently were occasional users. I would venture a guess that current pros use less than the past 30 years due to testing. If the first admitted steroid user was HOF Pud Galvin in 1889, then calling the 90s the steroid era is crazy.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I'm not a huge fan of all of the advanced metrics, but it's telling that Pujols since 2013 has been a negative WAR guy. In 2017 alone he was a -4 WAR. So RBI are just one stat but far from the whole picture of Pujols in the past few years....

Last season is the only season Pujols has had a negative WAR. 3.1 in 2014, 2.6 in 2015, 1.8 in 2016. That is even with the harsh penalty imposed for playing 1st base. Also, Bill James has joined the "light side" and been very critical of WAR lately. Pujols is going through a pretty typical aging process, not to mention that many think he is older than his "official age."

[packs]

I don't buy steroids being a driving factor for Pujols' walks. Pujols has only played in 1 playoff series with the Angels, as opposed to 15 series with the Cardinals. That would tell you that the Cardinals teams were a lot better than the Angels teams, which would also tell you that Pujols would be pitched around on a good team and thrown to on a bad one. I would point to his strike out totals remaining more or less constant to support that idea as well.

[insidethewrapper]

I belong to SABR but I believe in Runs Scored and RBI's. You win games by outscoring the other team. When you score more runs and knock more in then you win.
WAR ? I still don't understand it. Why would an outfielder who is only involved in a few plays a game be more valuable than a first baseman who scoops out of the dirt throws from 3b,ss, 2b on a daily basis and saves many errors, many bases and tons of runs during the season. First baseman save a lot of runs.

[doug.goodman]

Maybe the name of this thread should be changed to note the lack of conversation about the new signing by the Angels...

[Marchillo]

My point is that you can sign guys like Carl Crawford, Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard, Pablo Sandoval those are disasters. Yes hitting behind Mike Trout is a perfect place in the lineup but driving in 100 runs isn't easy and at 37 he's still doing it. Shame on the Angels for the contract but those aren't bad numbers for guys his age in a testing era.

[Peter_Spaeth]

RBIs have a lot to do with how many guys are on base when you come to the plate. Bat Pujlos behind an average hitter, not Trout, and his totals drop way off. Conversely, put guys with much lower RBI totals behind Trout, and theirs go to 100.

[TheNightmanCometh]

All I wanna know is when the first Otani auto card comes out.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

All I wanna know is when the first Otani auto card comes out.

Rest assured, it will set you back a grand when it shows up........

[bmattioli]

How many MLB pitchers or hitters has he faced? We shall see..

[pokerplyr80]

I was pretty excited to hear the news. I even called the Angels box office and discussed ticket packages. Anyone else in the socal area planning to go see him play?

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I was pretty excited to hear the news. I even called the Angels box office and discussed ticket packages. Anyone else in the socal area planning to go see him play?

We usually go to Arizona for a week of spring training. Although we always try to catch Trout for a game, this is making Tempe look a lot more tempting. And probably a lot more expensive.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

All I wanna know is when the first Otani auto card comes out.

Ryan - you already missed it. Bowman will show up with a 2014 autographed card to be released in 2018. I'm only half-kidding.

...and I'm definitely of the opinion that this guy is going to be, at the very least, a moderate disappointment....both ways.



-

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Ryan - you already missed it. Bowman will show up with a 2014 autographed card to be released in 2018. I'm only half-kidding.

...and I'm definitely of the opinion that this guy is going to be, at the very least, a moderate disappointment....both ways.



-

Haha, I'm just thinking about the gamble of buying a hobby box when it's released. Gonna wanna pre-order before the price of a box shoots up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

All I wanna know is when the first Otani auto card comes out.

Already happened.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shohei-Otan...EAAOSwY~1aGDIl

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shohei-Ohta...YAAOSwxzdaJNbx

And what on earth is Beckett doing grading facsimile autographs????
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHOHEI-OHTA...AAAOSwHERZzvcU