Marvin Miller cards?

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by packs

Inevitable or not though you can't deny Flood lost his career. I think he deserves a lot more recognition than he gets.

PS while Stan made his 100K in 1958 the average American made under 5K. I don't think he was hurting for cash.

Flood is certainly an interesting case, as not only was he the sacrificial lamb for the cause to get rid of the reserve clause, but he also was a pretty darn good player for over a decade. He likely would have gotten to 2,500 hits had his career taken a normal trajectory.

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive in terms of HOF discussion. Flood was the opening salvo and the unsuccessful martyr to something greater than himself. Without him, Miller likely would have eventually gotten what he was looking for. It just would have taken a bit longer perhaps.

As I said, I am certainly open to discussing the merits of Flood for the Hall in some capacity. But to me, without Miller, Flood is a moot point. Without Flood, Miller likely still gets it done eventually.

Tom C

[George]

Tom:

You seem to be under the impression that it is somehow in the interest of the public (specifically, the fans) to elevate the status of the players from the top 1%, which it has been for the last 120 years, to the top 0.01%, or 0.001%, or as high into the stratosphere as they can possibly attain. And if they have to go on strike, or do whatever else they need to do, good for them, because the end justifies the means.

I, on the other hand, believe that they have been handsomely and adequately compensated for longer than any living person has been alive. As Lawrence Ritter famously and correctly noted in his great book, describing the players of the Deadball Era, "All these were honored in their generations, and were the glory of their times." I doubt that a single one of them would have traded his career for any other. I therefore believe that it is their ancillary duty to respect and support the fans who follow them, and it is by extension the duty of the Hall of Fame to honor those individuals who have contributed to this process. That would exclude Marvin Miller, whose sole interest was to strengthen the power of the MLBPA. The welfare of the fans was not his interest, nor his problem.

Curt Flood was an outfielder who had 83 RBI's in his best season. Del Ennis, whose career overlapped Flood's, drove in over 100 runs in seven different years. If Del Ennis was not good enough, neither was Curt Flood.

George

[packs]

Curt Flood's case would be as a contributor, not a player. It's not about stats. His induction would be about what he gave up and what other players gained.