are they real- Jennings, Cooper, Nichols

[packs]

I wouldn't buy them.

[Klrdds]

Sorry to say that I agree with PSA on these . Each of these signatures have very evident signature characteristics that are not consistent with authentic signatures of these players. I have had multiple examples of these players in my collection on different media , except for the Cooper , which I turned down many years ago from Wayne.

[Bpm0014]

Eddie Collins def no good.

[theshleps]

I am totally on board with everyone on the Jennings, Collins, Nichols, and Bancroft. What would you do with these cards? The Bancroft is going in the trash. Jennings has value as a T206 so may sell as an unsigned. Nichols probably in trash.
I still have a hard time with the Cooper since it is such a match to the one in keatings book. What do you folks think is bad.
Jim is positive on the Hanlon as I have spoken to him many times about it. Should I sell it as a hanlon cut explaining it failed PSA but Stinson approves it???
I am just a collector but getting rid of a few items that do not fit my collecting parameters anymore. The $ is not that big a deal just if they are real I'd hate for them to be in the trash and I'd rather not give them away (Cooper and hanlon)
Thanks for all the input!

[tazdmb]

Doesn't Jim offer a Lifetime guarantee? I know others have returned autographs to him that have failed TPA.

As for Cooper, I am not nearly as knowledgeable as others, but I just find it odd how close of a match it is to Kevin's example, coupled with the fact of the medium, looks like unlined index card/sheet with just him on it. I doubt anyone was writing to him at home asking for an autograph given that he died young in 1941 or bringing index cards to games, especially in the Negro Leagues/Barnstorming, which was rare at that time. In fact, I don't even recall ever seeing a signal signed index card of a Rare Negro League player from their playing days. Perhaps it was taken from an autograph book?

Again, just my 2 Cents. Good Luck.

[HexsHeroes]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

Doesn't Jim offer a Lifetime guarantee? I know others have returned autographs to him that have failed TPA.

With no disrespect to Jim Stinson, Kevin Keating, or the handful or two of top notch dealers of vintage autographs over the years, but I have always assumed their money back guarantees were valid as long as they were actively in the business of buying/selling autographs. Essentially, only as long as the life time of that business. Once they retired or moved onto another occupation, the guarantee ceased. Just my opinion.

[theshleps]

not a matter of the $. I trust Jim and Wayne more than the people that rejected them and am in contact with both. probably will list them explaining who vouches for them and who rejected them or just keep them

[packs]

Isn't Keating at PSA? If so, he or his team failed the signature.

[theshleps]

The Cooper is on a cardboard like paper cut to a 3x5. Keating looked at it at the national and said it was no good but didn't say why. But again they are rejecting most vintage ones these days - even ones everyone else says are real. Was also rejected at PSA but when you submit to them you have no idea who looked at it. The earlier negro league guys often signed slowly. There was a cooper sold recently at Clean Sweep that looked nothing like this- cert by JSA- looked almost printed. Wondered how he certified that. Haven't seen any exemplars other than the Keating one I posted
Not trying to convince and I appreciate the input and conversation

[packs]

If you compare it to Keating and Keating turned it down that seems like a solid opinion.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by theshleps

The Cooper is on a cardboard like paper cut to a 3x5. Keating looked at it at the national and said it was no good but didn't say why. But again they are rejecting most vintage ones these days - even ones everyone else says are real. Was also rejected at PSA but when you submit to them you have no idea who looked at it. The earlier negro league guys often signed slowly. There was a cooper sold recently at Clean Sweep that looked nothing like this- cert by JSA- looked almost printed. Wondered how he certified that. Haven't seen any exemplars other than the Keating one I posted
Not trying to convince and I appreciate the input and conversation

A couple of related items:
I previously owned the Pop Lloyd that Ron K. used as his exemplar in his book. I showed it to Kevin (and later PSA) at the 2015 National and they both said it was no good. I had a standing offer on the signature for a fixed amount by another buyer who knew it was real. I accepted less $$ than I would have had PSA passed it, but knew that it would tough to move now that PSA failed it.

As for the Cooper, I believe this once originated from Kevin Keating, as he was selling the same signature at the 2015 National. I asked him how could he be SURE it was real based on the printed signature, he said he knew where it came from and it had to be real. It was later sold by Christies and then consigned again to JSA. Here is a picture for others:

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/L...8-details.aspx

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by theshleps

But again they are rejecting most vintage ones these days - even ones everyone else says are real. Was also rejected at PSA but when you submit to them you have no idea who looked at it.

you can't keep saying that blanket statement like it's 100% forgone conclusion. maybe they're rejecting most of YOUR vintage items, but that may not be the case with everybody else. they wouldn't still be in business if this was true. i may get some pushback on here as i think a couple other people share that opinion, but that doesn't make it so.

you keep playing the game and TPA shop these sigs until maybe one of them agree with your opinion...but don't come on here and complain after the fact about it. it's the game you chose play! kinda ironic keating kind of rejected his own stuff tho.