What would you do? Opinions wanted

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Long story short, recently I won an auction on Ebay and the bid was pushed to my max bid. This struck me as odd since my winning bid was exactly the amount I was willing to pay, right down to the exact cent.

This lead me to do a little research and I've found that the underbidder has pushed numerous auctions for the same seller repeatedly over the last few months.

Next I decided to take a look at the underbidder's history. Here is what showed up.

Total Bids: 833
Items Bid On: 195
Bid Percentage with this Seller: 89%

All of this was with the same seller. He bids on only this seller's items and bids sometimes multiple times on the same auction and always bids within the last hour of every auction bumping bids up from $1 to $10 at a time, then stops never actually winning an auction.

Its quite obvious (to me) what is going on here.

Now I haven't paid yet for the auction I've won, but was curious....

What would you do if you were in my shoes?


Jantz

Just a guess but the seller either has another account or has a friend shilling their auctions. Because of eBays bidding system it is not real hard to push someone to their max bid. Also bid retractions are meaningless most of the time. Shill bidding has evolved past that a long time ago for most that do it.

As far as what to do that is a personal choice. You did win the item for the price you would pay. On the other hand if you think something shady is going on do you really want to enable them even more?

EDIT: I forgot to add what I would do. At this time I am just a collector so the seller would be added to my list of sellers I would not buy from again. It is just a hobby for me and I do not need to enable the scum. Now if I was still selling cards to support myself I would pay for the card if I thought I could make $ on it. Making a buck seems to cloud peoples judgement pretty easily.

[bobbyw8469]

I would not pay and report the auction.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You did win the item for the price you would pay. On the other hand if you think something shady is going on do you really want to enable them even more?

Bnorth - True, I did win the auction for what I was willing to pay, but I would have won the auction with my initial bid had I not been bumped 3 times in the last 45 minutes of the auction. My initial bid and my maximum winning bid weren't that far apart, but bidders on the seller's other auctions are getting hit harder.

Bobby - I agree with you and I'm going to take it further.

[rainier2004]

Id contact the seller and renegotiate for what the price should have been. If not, I wouldn't pay and report the auction. If he does send the card at the new price I would still report the seller. The last thing I would do is just pay the price, you were screwed.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Id contact the seller and renegotiate for what the price should have been. If not, I wouldn't pay and report the auction. If he does send the card at the new price I would still report the seller. The last thing I would do is just pay the price, you were screwed.

Let us know who he is and then tell the seller you have shared your experience with 10,000 of your best friends, all of whom collect cards. If this doesn’t help in resolving your issue, just move on and we will all join you.

[Jobu]

I am curious how he manages never to win the items with 0 retractions. I know he can win and simply not pay, but it doesn't sound like that happens here. Jantz, if you look at the sold listings does the same card show up a lot?

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I am curious how he manages never to win the items with 0 retractions. I know he can win and simply not pay, but it doesn't sound like that happens here. Jantz, if you look at the sold listings does the same card show up a lot?

He can do this by bidding in the minimum possible increments and seeing where the next auto-bid from the high bidder comes in. If the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $510, then the shiller knows he can take it another step. But, if the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $507, the shiller will know he has almost reached the winner's top bid, and will not bump the bid again.

It seems obvious what is going on here. I would out the seller here so that we can all avoid him. And just another example of why I only snipe-bid on eBay.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

He can do this by bidding in the minimum possible increments and seeing where the next auto-bid from the high bidder comes in. If the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $510, then the shiller knows he can take it another step. But, if the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $507, the shiller will know he has almost reached the winner's top bid, and will not bump the bid again.

It seems obvious what is going on here. I would out the seller here so that we can all avoid him. And just another example of why I only snipe-bid on eBay.

Not even one win though in 195 items that were bid on, makes this even more strange and odd to me. I understand the scenario you laid out but on 195 items bid on, the odds of never once winning by accident seems incredibly small.

Take your example of a auction currently at $500. Ebay bidding increments state (I think) that the next bid has to be at least $10 over, so if they try to shill bid at $510, it is entirely possible the previous high bid was only $505 and now the shill becomes the high bidder. But that never once happened on 195 items and 833 bids.

I do believe something is up here, but I dont think its as straight forward as blind shill bidding.

[Michael B]

I would pay for the item and move on. You readily admitted that the bid you placed was the maximum amount you were willing to pay. The salient point is that "my winning bid was exactly the amount I was willing to pay, right down to the exact cent.". You said that you could have had it at a lower price if not for the shenanigans. That is just a guess based on certain dynamics of an auction. There is no way of knowing if there may have been someone else watching who was going to bid late and saw it rise to a point above what they were willing to pay and did not enter a bid. I have no doubt that the seller is playing games, either using several accounts or in collusion with someone else. The people that go to that much trouble have learned to game the system. You can chose to not bid with this person again, bid using a snipe program or wait until the last 10 seconds or so which is what I usually do.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

He can do this by bidding in the minimum possible increments and seeing where the next auto-bid from the high bidder comes in. If the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $510, then the shiller knows he can take it another step. But, if the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $507, the shiller will know he has almost reached the winner's top bid, and will not bump the bid again.

It seems obvious what is going on here. I would out the seller here so that we can all avoid him. And just another example of why I only snipe-bid on eBay.

Is this right? That the autobid increment is affected by another person's max bid? I thought the autobid increment was simply determined by the price and previous bidding

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

He can do this by bidding in the minimum possible increments and seeing where the next auto-bid from the high bidder comes in. If the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $510, then the shiller knows he can take it another step. But, if the current bid is $500, the shiller bids $505, and the auto-bid moves to $507, the shiller will know he has almost reached the winner's top bid, and will not bump the bid again.

It seems obvious what is going on here. I would out the seller here so that we can all avoid him. And just another example of why I only snipe-bid on eBay.

Ah, very interesting! Thanks Dan, for the info. Should have figured it out myself.

As to the poster's question, my actions would most likely be dictated by how tough the item is to obtain, whether I was not greatly dissatisfied with the price I paid and set as my maximum, etc. One thing I definitely would not do is bid with that seller again!

May your collecting bring you the joy it is supposed to,

Larry