Roy hallady r.i.p

[h2oya311]

need more pics of Doc vs. arguments about Nolan Ryan:

[jb217676]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

need more pics of Doc vs. arguments about Nolan Ryan:

Derek, you'll need to get one of Doc's 1995 Signature Rookies for your pre-rookie collection. He has a regular card, signed card and signed 8" x 10" redemption photo. I picked up one of the signed 8" x 10" photos, pictures Doc in his Dunedin Blue Jays uniform.

[Fred]

Wow, the Doc passes on and people are going to bring up who's a better pitcher.... how does that happen?

If I were a HOF voter he'd have my vote, not because he is gone but because he was a great pitcher. Not really sure how that is relevant to this thread. He's gone, so very sad.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Fred

Wow, the Doc passes on and people are going to bring up who's a better pitcher.... how does that happen?

If I were a HOF voter he'd have my vote, not because he is gone but because he was a great pitcher. Not really sure how that is relevant to this thread. He's gone, so very sad.

I would put andy pettite above him for HOF.....Roy got a few more awards..but the win total and playoff win total and success gives Andy the edge...

I also wish they had a Hall of Fame within the Hall of Fame....like first ballot guys etc..

[baseball tourist]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I would put andy pettite above him for HOF.....Roy got a few more awards..but the win total and playoff win total and success gives Andy the edge...

I disagree. Playoff win total speaks to the quality of team around Andy. Doc played on some middling to worse Jays squads.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by baseball tourist

I disagree. Playoff win total speaks to the quality of team around Andy. Doc played on some middling to worse Jays squads.

The peripherals are also very good for Pettite he was top 6 in Cy young 5 times....7 for Roy

plus yes we know its all about opportunity for the playoffs but you cant punish someone for doing well and the playoff performances for pettite are a big plus when compared to Roy.....we know pettite did well with his opportunities.but we dont know about roy.......it is what it is...

and wins matter.until you show me a 300 game winner that doesnt make the hall..yes andy doesnt have 300 wins..he has about 275 when you combine playoff and regular season but just saying wins matter.

[darwinbulldog]

I already analyzed my data a long time ago, so Halladay's passing doesn't change anything in the rankings, but of the guys who pitched in my lifetime here's where I have them:

1) Roger Clemens
2) Tom Seaver
3) Randy Johnson
4) Greg Maddux
5) Pedro Martinez
6) Bert Blyleven
7) Phil Niekro
8) Mike Mussina
9) Curt Schilling
10) Clayton Kershaw (if he retires today; otherwise he probably ends up about #3)
11) Steve Carlton
12) Fergie Jenkins
13) Gaylord Perry
14) Roy Halladay
15) Tom Glavine
16) Kevin Brown
17) Rick Reuschel
18) Jim Palmer
19) Nolan Ryan
20) Luis Tiant
21) Cole Hamels
22) Dave Stieb
23) Felix Hernandez
24) Andy Pettite

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The peripherals are also very good for Pettite he was top 6 in Cy young 5 times....7 for Roy

plus yes we know its all about opportunity for the playoffs but you cant punish someone for doing well and the playoff performances for pettite are a big plus when compared to Roy.....we know pettite did well with his opportunities.but we dont know about roy.......it is what it is...

and wins matter.until you show me a 300 game winner that doesnt make the hall..yes andy doesnt have 300 wins..he has about 275 when you combine playoff and regular season but just saying wins matter.

Andy Pettitte being better than Roy Halladay is the most laughable thing I've read in a while.

What is so special about Andy's playoff performance? That he had 10 x's the opportunity that Roy had in the Playoffs? His career winning %, and era are almost identical to his career numbers. So his playoff performance was par for the course but not HOF worthy.

Let's not forget another small little factoid about Andy Pettitte he's an admitted cheater. Roy's career ended at a relatively young age. If he got on a solid HGH regime and played 3-4 more years he could have had another 60 wins added to his resume.

In my opinion Roy is not a sure fire first ballot hall of famer. I think he is a borderline guy. He doesn't have accumulated stats that blow people away 300 wins, 3000 k's, etc. But he at times was the most dominant pitcher in baseball. Something that can't be said about Andy Pettitte or some of the other guys mentioned above.

[packs]

Originally Posted by baseball tourist

I disagree. Playoff win total speaks to the quality of team around Andy. Doc played on some middling to worse Jays squads.

I don't believe that at all. I don't see how someone could say Mariano Rivera's performance in the playoffs isn't short of incredible. You have to perform in the moment and Andy was at the top of the mountain.

[Orioles1954]

If Halladay gets in then Mussina, Pettitte, Gooden and Morris HAVE to be elected. I know everyone is sad by Halladay's passing, but let's not inflate his career based on sympathy alone. Of the 10 most similar players on Baseball Reference, exactly ONE (Vance) is in Cooperstown. Is Zack Grienke a Hall of Famer? That's his closest comp.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by jb217676

Derek, you'll need to get one of Doc's 1995 Signature Rookies for your pre-rookie collection. He has a regular card, signed card and signed 8" x 10" redemption photo. I picked up one of the signed 8" x 10" photos, pictures Doc in his Dunedin Blue Jays uniform.

Hmm...I was aware of the following: 1996 Best Dunedin, 1996 Dunedin Team Issue, and 1996 Dunedin Team Issue Update, but didn't know he had a card issued from 1995.

Thanks for the heads-up!