OT: Who Determined That Mantle's Rookie Card was the 52 Topps

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I think that it already had skyrocketed in anticipation of Rose breaking the record. In comparison, here are a few other notable Mint Card values from the same 1985 guide:

1951 Bowman Mantle $400
1952 Topps Mantle $2,100
1954 Topps Aaron $175
1955 Topps Koufax $60
1955 Topps Clemente $100
1968 Topps Ryan $36

Beckett did not list the 1963 Rose as a $1,000 card in mint condition until 1994.

That's odd because I have the November 1984 price guide, it has Rose at 350 and the rest of those cards all lower at a time when everything was going up in price.

Beckett may not have had it listed for 1k, but mint ones were bringing that. Do you have a monthly from around September 1985 when he broke the record? I know it was at least 700+.

Beckett was slow in those days at raising prices. For example he listed 83T Sandberg at 3.25, but they were 5.00-6.00 all summer long. My guide had 52T Mantle at 1400, yours had it 2100, but I turned down 3000 for mine.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by rats60

Beckett may not have had it listed for 1k, but mint ones were bringing that. Do you have a monthly from around September 1985 when he broke the record? I know it was at least 700+.

No, all that I have are the yearly guides. I got rid of all of my monthly Beckett guides years ago.

[drcy]

Despite the premise of this thread, I don't know of anyone who considers the 52 Topps to be Mantle's rookie card.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Seems to me, and I'm sure there are technical terms for it, the rookie card phenomenon is simply a natural byproduct to supply and psychology.

As a general observation, there are less 1980 cards than there are 1990, less 1970 than 1980, less 1960 than 1970, and on and on. Seems only natural that we would assume subconsciously that a player's first card is their rarest and be drawn to it above all others.

[Buythatcard]

I saw this excerpt on cardboardconnection.com:

"Baseball Rookie Cards versus 1st Year Prospect

Before the 2006 baseball season, the MLBPA announced some changes that were meant to make defining rookie cards easier. Both Topps and Upper Deck were on board but, honestly, things just got more confusing and a window for a new breed of pre-rookies opened.

With the rule change, official rookie cards were only made after a player appeared on a team's 25-man roster. In its most basic form, it was a great idea. Collectors chase rookie cards when they're first-year players. The rule has had great success in hockey. Although not an official rule, it's like this in basketball and football too as players generally make their team's rosters fresh after the draft and don't spend several years developing in a minor league system."

If we follow this, then the Mantle 51 Bowman is a 1st Year Prospect
card, while the 52 Topps is his Rookie card.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I saw this excerpt on cardboardconnection.com:

"Baseball Rookie Cards versus 1st Year Prospect

Before the 2006 baseball season, the MLBPA announced some changes that were meant to make defining rookie cards easier. Both Topps and Upper Deck were on board but, honestly, things just got more confusing and a window for a new breed of pre-rookies opened.

With the rule change, official rookie cards were only made after a player appeared on a team's 25-man roster. In its most basic form, it was a great idea. Collectors chase rookie cards when they're first-year players. The rule has had great success in hockey. Although not an official rule, it's like this in basketball and football too as players generally make their team's rosters fresh after the draft and don't spend several years developing in a minor league system."

If we follow this, then the Mantle 51 Bowman is a 1st Year Prospect
card, while the 52 Topps is his Rookie card.

The '51 Bowman Mantle was part of the high number series. The low number series was released mid-April 1951. Mantle made his MLB debut April 17th, 1951. Since the high number series was produced after (look at your definition again) his major league debut, it is his rookie card. Now, if the '51 Bowman Mantle would have been released with the low number series, then it would not be his rookie card because the card was issued before his MLB debut. In that case, the '52 Topps would have been his RC.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The '51 Bowman Mantle was part of the high number series. The low number series was released mid-April 1951. Mantle made his MLB debut April 17th, 1951. Since the high number series was produced after (look at your definition again) his major league debut, it is his rookie card. Now, if the '51 Bowman Mantle would have been released with the low number series, then it would not be his rookie card because the card was issued before his MLB debut. In that case, the '52 Topps would have been his RC.

Great point David. I was just quoting something I found on the Internet. I think the 51 Bowman is his Rookie card just because it was the first card that he appeared on.

[barrysloate]

When I first came into the hobby in 1982, I remember the hottest card in any dealer's showcase was the Pete Rose rookie. I recall prices is in the $250-300 range, and in some instances the card would be in a dealer's case with a "Not for Sale" sign next to it. It was that big of a deal.

With regard to the Mantle cards, the 1952 Topps is more iconic, more valuable, more aesthetically pleasing, in greater demand, and arguably the most recognized of all post-war baseball cards.

The one thing it isn't, and can never be, is Mantle's rookie card. The 1951 Bowman was issued and released a full year before it, so I see no debate whatsoever.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I saw this excerpt on cardboardconnection.com:

"Baseball Rookie Cards versus 1st Year Prospect

Before the 2006 baseball season, the MLBPA announced some changes that were meant to make defining rookie cards easier. Both Topps and Upper Deck were on board but, honestly, things just got more confusing and a window for a new breed of pre-rookies opened.

With the rule change, official rookie cards were only made after a player appeared on a team's 25-man roster. In its most basic form, it was a great idea. Collectors chase rookie cards when they're first-year players. The rule has had great success in hockey. Although not an official rule, it's like this in basketball and football too as players generally make their team's rosters fresh after the draft and don't spend several years developing in a minor league system."

If we follow this, then the Mantle 51 Bowman is a 1st Year Prospect
card, while the 52 Topps is his Rookie card.

What?! That makes no sense. Mantle played 96 games in 1951, starting in mid April.
Cards then weren't issued starting in January, but during the season. So the 51 would have been issued after Mantle was on the roster.