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  #1  
Old 10-30-2017, 10:04 PM
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MattyC MattyC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdoggs View Post
I agree with you.
Ruth PSA 7 sporting news blank back rookie sold for $600k. SMR is $565k.
Ruth sporting news rookie cards on the aggregate are trending upward.
And they are more stable than post war rookies such as Koufax, Clemente, Ryan, Rose, etc.
SMR is notoriously low across the board, so compared to that everything is going up in price, lol.
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:49 PM
Jdoggs Jdoggs is offline
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Originally Posted by MattyC View Post
SMR is notoriously low across the board, so compared to that everything is going up in price, lol.
Actually you are wrong.

51 mantle bowman psa 7 sold for $20k on eBay auction recently.
Smr is $35k for psa 7 51 bowman.

Smr is not notoriously low across the board there are many more examples of this.
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:57 PM
JasonD08 JasonD08 is offline
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As previous owner it has went up 10 times since I sold it. It actually was holdered with wrong date years ago. Amazing what a call to Joe and a $100 bill will do. I was too shocked at the straight 4 grade.
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  #4  
Old 10-31-2017, 05:54 PM
Bradyhill Bradyhill is offline
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Truth be told that Standard Biscuit 4 is my Card and I needed to sell it back quickly because I wanted to win the REA 7.... which I did :-)

It’s a solid 4 in my opinion though.
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  #5  
Old 10-31-2017, 06:10 PM
Vintageclout Vintageclout is offline
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Default Ruth Rookie

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Originally Posted by Bradyhill View Post
Truth be told that Standard Biscuit 4 is my Card and I needed to sell it back quickly because I wanted to win the REA 7.... which I did :-)

It’s a solid 4 in my opinion though.
Hi Brady it’s Joe T! I just wanted to extend my congrats on winning the PSA 7 Ruth Rookie in REA. It’s a tremendous card, and you won it on the slightly lower end of the spectrum.
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  #6  
Old 10-31-2017, 10:58 PM
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Brady congrats on a great card! Joe, some Ruth items did go strong, but I thought the Ruth team PC 4 and Stag Sweater Photo went a little light, and Brady's 7 should've/could've been a 750k+ card or higher, as it was a good bit nicer than the Heritage 7 from the last sale. 600k isn't cheap though! PSA has graded a few 6's & 7's as off-center as that 4, with the front of the 4 being equally as nice(image, color, corners). I think it could've been a 6mk or a 4 due to the stain imo, but I'm not a grader. I still think that was a really low price for that card regardless.

Last edited by pcoz; 11-02-2017 at 04:53 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdoggs View Post
Actually you are wrong.

51 mantle bowman psa 7 sold for $20k on eBay auction recently.
Smr is $35k for psa 7 51 bowman.

Smr is not notoriously low across the board there are many more examples of this.
Actually, if you are looking at smr for anything beyond the articles, you’re doing yourself a disservice. In general, it is low— and behind the times. But you make your own valuations and I’ll make mine.

Last edited by MattyC; 10-31-2017 at 11:18 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyC View Post
Actually, if you are looking at smr for anything beyond the articles, you’re doing yourself a disservice. In general, it is low— and behind the times. But you make your own valuations and I’ll make mine.
Some SMR prices are relatively accurate and up to date. I think the worst SMR joke prices are for Cracker Jack baseball cards. The Cracker Jacks aren't even some obscure, thinly traded sets.

It is silly when SMR lists 1915 Cracker Jack prices of $800 in PSA 1 for Cobb, $250 for Wagner, $225 for Matty, $225 for WaJo, $90 for Alexander and either $30 or $35 for minor Hall of Famers.
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  #9  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:44 PM
Jdoggs Jdoggs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyC View Post
SMR is notoriously low across the board, so compared to that everything is going up in price, lol.
Just wanted to point out you stated compared to SMR "everything" is going up in price and you stated SMR is notoriously low across the board. Not "everything" is selling for more than SMR and I gave you the 51 mantle PSA 7 recent sale on ebay example which was $15k less than current SMR for 51 mantle PSA 7. Other recent sales of other major cards have sold for less than SMR too but you can find those examples with your own research.

Last edited by Jdoggs; 11-01-2017 at 12:10 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2017, 01:03 AM
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Brady-For a blank back card the 7 is a beauty. Personally, I don’t like blank backs but to each his own. The Standard Biscuit 4 is extremely nice. The centering annoys me a little, but otherwise it has the characteristics of a higher graded card. I would think that it will do very well. With all due respect to my friend Pete, I still do not like the blank back 4 from REA. That back really is a tough obstacle to overcome.
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2017, 05:22 AM
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Jay, the back and card might not be for everyone, point well taken. The Standard Biscuit 4 is much nicer than the REA 4 on the whole. Brady good luck with the sale. The stain on a blank back didn't bother me much. It was less obtrusive or bothersome than if it had creases or paper loss. So, I was happy to own it, but I can see it not being for everyone.

Last edited by pcoz; 11-01-2017 at 05:34 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2017, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyC View Post
SMR is notoriously low across the board, so compared to that everything is going up in price, lol.

Or outrageously high!
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:48 AM
griffon512 griffon512 is offline
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Default Eye Appeal is King

some previous posters have alluded to this, but i think the debate boils down to the REA PSA 4 Ruth having poor eye appeal relative to comps in the view of most auction bidders. don't get me wrong, it's a tremendous card and i would love to go back in time with the foresight to buy it 5 years ago...but the greatest foresight would have been to go back in time and buy only high eye appeal rookie or early year cards of iconic players.

absent any major flaws, the biggest drivers of attractiveness of a card are centering and image quality. both have gotten progressively more important recently, where the premiums on high eye appeal and discounts on low eye appeal are more pronounced. we see examples of this all over the place in recent auctions of high end cards. e.g., look at the premiums t206 cobbs are getting with strong centering and registration. same goes for ruth goudeys, and countless other high end cards. on the flip side, a poorly centered mantle psa 6 rookie went for ~$9,900 in lelands (https://lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=84399), probably $5k less than what a well centered example would have gotten. obviously the higher dollar value the card is, the bigger the $ impact is going to be for high eye appeal vs. low eye appeal.

unlike some post-war iconic players, i don't see any consistent signs of a slowdown in prices in mid-range and high-end ruth cards that have high eye appeal currently. it's the opposite. in addition i think this higher premium/discount on eye appeal will continue, because it's become accepted practice by collectors and investors to not let vcp or smr dictate prices when eye appeal in both directions deviates greatly from the norm. high eye appeal is a way that the hobby has created greater scarcity value in the same way a third party grade has in the past, and i think that trend is here to stay!
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:22 PM
Vintageclout Vintageclout is offline
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Default Ruth PSA 4 Rookie

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon512 View Post
some previous posters have alluded to this, but i think the debate boils down to the REA PSA 4 Ruth having poor eye appeal relative to comps in the view of most auction bidders. don't get me wrong, it's a tremendous card and i would love to go back in time with the foresight to buy it 5 years ago...but the greatest foresight would have been to go back in time and buy only high eye appeal rookie or early year cards of iconic players.

absent any major flaws, the biggest drivers of attractiveness of a card are centering and image quality. both have gotten progressively more important recently, where the premiums on high eye appeal and discounts on low eye appeal are more pronounced. we see examples of this all over the place in recent auctions of high end cards. e.g., look at the premiums t206 cobbs are getting with strong centering and registration. same goes for ruth goudeys, and countless other high end cards. on the flip side, a poorly centered mantle psa 6 rookie went for ~$9,900 in lelands (https://lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=84399), probably $5k less than what a well centered example would have gotten. obviously the higher dollar value the card is, the bigger the $ impact is going to be for high eye appeal vs. low eye appeal.

unlike some post-war iconic players, i don't see any consistent signs of a slowdown in prices in mid-range and high-end ruth cards that have high eye appeal currently. it's the opposite. in addition i think this higher premium/discount on eye appeal will continue, because it's become accepted practice by collectors and investors to not let vcp or smr dictate prices when eye appeal in both directions deviates greatly from the norm. high eye appeal is a way that the hobby has created greater scarcity value in the same way a third party grade has in the past, and i think that trend is here to stay!
+1 - I couldn't agree more Jim. I've always stated that for iconic cards, exceptional centering can drive a premium 25% - 50%+ (especially for the Ruth Rookie and '51 Bowman/'52 Topps Mantles). While many technical attributes impact a card's value such as creasing, corners, color, surface issues, etc., it certainly seems the most significant positive pricing driver is a card portraying close to 50/50 centering.

Joe T.

Last edited by Vintageclout; 11-01-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2017, 01:50 PM
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Well said, Joe and James.

Last edited by MattyC; 11-01-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon512 View Post
high eye appeal is a way that the hobby has created greater scarcity value in the same way a third party grade has in the past, and i think that trend is here to stay!
I think this is a very astute point.

Generally speaking, the hobby ascribes great value to scarity. We love to spend money on cards with low pops. But what if you could quantify the % of perfectly centered/registered examples of a particular issue? My gut says that the pop of these cards, at any grade, would be incredibly low. I’ve probably seen 90% of the publicly traded Red Cobb portraits sold in the last five years, and I’ve seen more cards with a Ty Cobb back than I have seen perfectly centered/registered versions (with any back). Clearly, this is both subjective and anecdotal, but my sense is that cards that were perfectly printed and cut at the factory make up a smaller population than we give them credit for, and that should keep premiums healthy.
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mechanicalman View Post
I think this is a very astute point.

what if you could quantify the % of perfectly centered/registered examples of a particular issue?
Well said. I try to do just that with the cards I collect. Very early on it struck me that while I could pick from many 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles, I could not find any that were dead centered. To date I have only come across a literal handful that I'd call dead centered to the eye, across all grades. Of course many other classic cards have similar situations, and their focused/centered specimens are always hotly contested when they surface.
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2017, 06:41 PM
Vintageclout Vintageclout is offline
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Default Ruth Rookie

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Originally Posted by MattyC View Post
Well said. I try to do just that with the cards I collect. Very early on it struck me that while I could pick from many 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles, I could not find any that were dead centered. To date I have only come across a literal handful that I'd call dead centered to the eye, across all grades. Of course many other classic cards have similar situations, and their focused/centered specimens are always hotly contested when they surface.
I remember when you grabbed that Mantle Matt, and to this day, I’ve never seen one with better centering. It’s perfect! Same issue with the Ruth Rookie. Try finding one that has nearly perfect centering....virtually impossible. Even the REA one that just sold somewhat favored the upper edge. When you find these cards with 45/55 to 50:50 centering all around, expect to pay stratospheric pricing.
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  #19  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:01 PM
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Ruth can come with good centering.
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  #20  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:53 PM
Jdoggs Jdoggs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon512 View Post

unlike some post-war iconic players, i don't see any consistent signs of a slowdown in prices in mid-range and high-end ruth cards that have high eye appeal currently. it's the opposite. in addition i think this higher premium/discount on eye appeal will continue, because it's become accepted practice by collectors and investors to not let vcp or smr dictate prices when eye appeal in both directions deviates greatly from the norm. high eye appeal is a way that the hobby has created greater scarcity value in the same way a third party grade has in the past, and i think that trend is here to stay!
I concur!
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