Print Group 1 timeline, and Ball, Brown, and Lundgren

[greco827]

Thanks for the replies. I'm still trying to make sense of it. Perhaps it is as simple as having the proper card count for each series, or something similar. Neal Ball is the most baffling of the bunch though. No Hindu, which came earlier, but a part of the later in 1909 350 first releases (oddly, except Sovereign 350), and then not pictured in a Cleveland uni until the late 1910/early 1911 460 series.

Ted Z., Great display!

[greco827]

Slightly off topic, but has any consideration been given to denoting the various 350 releases and 350-1, 350-2, and 350-3, to designate the various print groups associated with each release? I haven't dug into this to test it's feasibility, more just curious if it's been discussed, or if anyone collects say, Piedmont 350/Print Group 2 as a collection?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by greco827

Slightly off topic, but has any consideration been given to denoting the various 350 releases and 350-1, 350-2, and 350-3, to designate the various print groups associated with each release? I haven't dug into this to test it's feasibility, more just curious if it's been discussed, or if anyone collects say, Piedmont 350/Print Group 2 as a collection?

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking and some of this has probably been discussed before.

Lundgren might be the most interesting print related subject in the set.
His Chicago variation was added late to print group 1 and the K.C.
variation was pulled early from print group 2.

With some of the information we have it looks like there were a few different stages
that the Piedmonts and SC350/30 and possibly SC350/25 were printed in.

There is a group of 16 (18 if you count Demmitt and O'Hara ST. Louis) subjects
that are the only no prints from print group 2 with AB frame, BL 350 and
cycle 350 backs.

Looking at this group it looks like Carolina Brights and EPDG could be part of
the earlier printing for print group 2. It looks like Bobby Byrne might have
replaced Lundgren Kansas City, Rossman might have replaced Demmitt New York
and Cross or Mowrey could have replaced O'Hara New York.

img571.jpg

[greco827]

Pat,

That's a great spreadsheet, which certainly tells a story. What I am thinking is more along the lines of breaking the Piedmont 350 series into sub-series, each associated with the print groups. Since Piedmont was the flagship brand of ATC, and PD350 is the most common, and as such, assuming it was the first to be released (priority 1), breaking it into subgroups would bring the timeline of which cards were printed in what order into a bit more fine focus.

Group 2 for instance, has a ton of various backs. However, not all of PG2 cards have each of the various backs.

Using Mike Mowrey as an example ... Mowrey was traded in August 1909. Other than Piedmont and SC, he and Lundgren, who was released in May 1909, are in none of the same sets. Lundgren has a Carolina Brights and EPDG back, and Mowrey has neither. Mowrey however, is included in SOV350 an Tolstoi. Now this is oo small a sample size to draw any conclusions, it leads towards CB and EPDG being printed earlier in the PG2/350 series than Sovereign 350 (FG) or Tolstoi.

[steve B]

I believe both the 350s and 150s have at least three different printings for many cards. Our current collective understanding is complex, but I think the actuality is well beyond that.