1952 Christmas Rack Pack with Mantle

[dodgerfanjohn]

Why on earth are ANY of you even remotely entertaining the idea that this eBay pack is real?

The Murphy find is really well documented esp on CU and can be found easily with a google search.

But any Xmas pacs on eBay are 100% fake. No point in checking packaging, staples, anything. The research has been done and all of its fake.

[ALR-bishop]

Wow. Thanks, close call. Saved by the bell.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

Why on earth are ANY of you even remotely entertaining the idea that this eBay pack is real?

The Murphy find is really well documented esp on CU and can be found easily with a google search.

But any Xmas pacs on eBay are 100% fake. No point in checking packaging, staples, anything. The research has been done and all of its fake.

I have no interest in these but my Google search suggests that there is still some difference in opinion as to whether some of these actually contain some legitimate cards. This is from an interview Rich Mueller did a few years back. Not encouraging people to buy these, but I'm not sure it's as cut and dry as you suggest. I confess I didn't spend hours researching this, but this is what I quickly found from a legitimate informed publication.

Explain the “Christmas rack packs”—where did they come from, are any of them legitimate and what’s usually inside?


Another tough subject! These Christmas racks were not produced by Topps. That is first and foremost. All of these Christmas racks are not issued by Topps in any way in any type of Topps closeout. They have been produced by a third party and then retailed in stores. Most likely in dime stores around the country in the 60’s and 70’s.


The cards are usually in EX to EX-MT condition at best. That leads me to believe that Topps did not even supply the cards for these! Had Topps supplied the cards, they would still most likely have been a little bit cleaner and sharper than the cards that are in these packs. I also see Christmas racks now that are being produced today.

Most advanced pack collectors will tell you that these packs are not legitimate items since Topps didn’t produce them. I will never authenticate one as being real for this same reason.

However–this is not to say that the racks have no value. The cards in the packs are still legitimate Topps cards. I have seen many racks with many major stars right on top. If a Christmas rack has a Sandy Koufax RC showing on top in EX-MT condition, well then, it still obviously is worth whatever that card is worth to you! A 1962 Topps Christmas rack may have zero value as a legit, Topps issued unopened rack pack, but still holds some value for the cards it is holding within.

[1952boyntoncollector]

It is funny how collectors keep going to the stinky well. Nobody is going to give good deals on rack packs value wise. Otherwise they would of just broken them up.

I can declare right now that i am taking random 1952 cards and making 'rack packs' and i can put in a mid grade andy pafko on the front in full view and a mid grade high number in full view and the rest commons that are in view.

Then i can declare i need funds for medication or taxes or whatever and there are 'mystery 1952 cards' inside. (they could be low number or high numbers or just regular commons but no mantle of course)... and 100% real or money back

and magically people will pay more than what a mid grade pafko and the mid grade high number would go for plus the 5-10$ a standard mid grade common would go for in the bidding and i just made money.. will be a sucker every time.

of course when someone buys it..they may re-sell it and give some additional story and say they were packed in the 70s when high numbers were not that sought after etc so it could have more them as well...plus it does have a Pafko..so who knows what other great cards are there? Maybe theres a baritrome in there now?

There would also be many net54 threads about whether its a good buy from that new seller....

[ALR-bishop]

Steve-- as noted above I tried to delve into these some to see if there was notable difference in what one could find in the "original" Murphy pack "find" and the current ongoing productions. Some folks say you tell the originals by staple or packaging type, but usually those are folks selling them.

I think the origin of these is an interesting hobby story but I have never been able to confirm that the originals were actually packaged back in the 60s and 70s as some claim ( which would make it more likely unseen cards might have some values, albeit in non mint condition) . But they showed up in 2001, where were they before that ? Murphy said he bought them through a 3d party he would not name, that they were repackaged by a 3d party he would not or could not name, and sold at retail at stores no one can recall.

If someone has first hand knowledge of these actually being sold in retail stores back in the day, I would love to hear about it. My interest in them is not about value but their actual origin

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Steve-- as noted above I tried to delve into these some to see if there was notable difference in what one could find in the "original" Murphy pack "find" and the current ongoing productions. Some folks say you tell the originals by staple or packaging type, but usually those are folks selling them.

I think the origin of these is an interesting hobby story but I have never been able to confirm that the originals were actually packaged back in the 60s and 70s as some claim ( which would make it more likely unseen cards might have some values, albeit in non mint condition) . But they showed up in 2001, where were they before that ? Murphy said he bought them through a 3d party he would not name, that they were repackaged by a 3d party he would not or could not name, and sold at retail at stores no one can recall.

If someone has first hand knowledge of these actually being sold in retail stores back in the day, I would love to hear about it. My interest in them is not about value but their actual origin

I remember buying some Xmas packs that look like the ones in this thread back in the late 80's, can't remember exact year. I also can't remember what year cards they held. I do remember buying them at Kmart. About a year ago I found one of those old empty Xmas packs that still had the Kmart price sticker on it. Unfortunately I burned it along with over 100K junk era cards.

[ALR-bishop]

Thanks Ben. ...for burning the evidence

Do you remember if it was late or early 80s and what city ?

[David W]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I remember buying some Xmas packs that look like the ones in this thread back in the late 80's, can't remember exact year. I also can't remember what year cards they held. I do remember buying them at Kmart. About a year ago I found one of those old empty Xmas packs that still had the Kmart price sticker on it. Unfortunately I burned it along with over 100K junk era cards.

I recall going to the Kmart in Peoria, Illinois in the summer, in the late 70's I would assume, and they had a big table by the checkouts with some sort of packaging similar to these Christmas packs of all sorts of Topps cards. I bought a handful for probably 25 cents or something, and opened them. Most were 75 Topps, I got a Gibson record breaker, and they also contained some football cards and non sports cards.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by David W

I recall going to the Kmart in Peoria, Illinois in the summer, in the late 70's I would assume, and they had a big table by the checkouts with some sort of packaging similar to these Christmas packs of all sorts of Topps cards. I bought a handful for probably 25 cents or something, and opened them. Most were 75 Topps, I got a Gibson record breaker, and they also contained some football cards and non sports cards.

We had those here in the late 80's but they did not have the Xmas packaging. They did have them on tables lined up right before you went through the check out lanes. When they did not have tons of them for sale there was one display in the check out isle beside the customer service desk.

[Snapolit1]

I have to confess that if I saw them at goodwill for a few bucks I'd buy everyone they had. Maybe a losing lottery ticket but who knows.

Other than second and third and fourth hand knowledge, has anyone every bought one and taken it apart? After 500 posts on the subject over the years I still don't know if anyone knows

a. are they all 100% counterfeit cards

b. are they just repacked real cards and essentially fake retro items but in crappy shape

c. or some mixture of fakes (rarer) and real (cheapos)

Maybe I've missed it but I still have never seen that simple question definitively answered.