Centering

orly57 · #1 10-11-2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

As the potential buyers dwindle on these items, the active buyers get to be more picky and that to me is why centering keeps going up value wise.

Its not like T206 wagner cards centering is the main thing...

but yeah when you have 2,000 cards to pick from and less than 200 buyers of those cards to pay the prevailing 'market' rates, centering becomes the it thing.

you can see on ebay for many vintage cards 20 or so listings of a psa 4-6 card HOF for example in the 60s but none centered well..

I don't think that guys collect nicely centered cards because it is the "it" thing, as you say. Personally, I can't live with an off-centered card. It drives me nuts. Call it OCD or whatever, but I love symmetry. It is just more pleasant to look at. I know that there are many more out there like me.

I collect rare Cobb postcards that have populations FAR lower than the T206 Wagner, and while I may be forced to buy an off-centered copy because it may be the last time I will see one for 10 years, I would hate the card. It would irk me into madness. On more common cards, it isn't a matter of how much more I would pay for the centered one, because the off-centered one isn't even a consideration. I doubt that the bidders on the two Play Ball cards were even the same guys. We collectors are a special kind of crazy.

midmo · #2 10-11-2017, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57

I don't think that guys collect nicely centered cards because it is the "it" thing, as you say. Personally, I can't live with an off-centered card. It drives me nuts. Call it OCD or whatever, but I love symmetry. It is just more pleasant to look at. I know that there are many more out there like me.

My centering OCD isn't too bad, I have a harder time with weak images (faded, out of focus, etc). Of course I'd like a card with great centering and image, but if I have to choose I'll pick the strong image every time. Just my personal preference.

greco827 · #3 10-12-2017, 10:15 AM

Good centering obviously makes for better presentation, as well as coloring and focus, and all of that. Would you guys agree that for the most part a PSA with a (MC) would go for less than a PSA of the same grade with (MK), assuming the mark is on the reverse?

For the record, I don't care for the qualifiers. If a 4 with "(MC)" is really a 2, just give it a 2.

Iwantmorecards77 · #4 10-12-2017, 10:58 AM

I totally get the centering thing - and if a well centered card is within my budget - I'll go for it. ...but I really don't mind off-centered cards. Nothing in life has ever been perfect and the same goes with my collection. Haha Plus - an off-centered card is a bit easier on the wallet!

texmrsport · #5 10-12-2017, 12:17 PM

My OCD can't deal with off center cards. I'll take a well centered card with a dinged corner over razor sharp corners on a 80/20 centered card any day.

Stampsfan · #6 10-12-2017, 01:53 PM

I must be in the minority, and have been for 30 years. for a mid-grade card, I look at the corners first. I prefer a card in nicer shape and a little OC, rather than a card with rounded corners and nice centering.

darwinbulldog · #7 10-12-2017, 02:00 PM

I don't recall anyone caring about centering when I got into collecting in the 80s. Presumably they did, but I wasn't aware of it as an issue until I started seeing PSA cards with "(OC)" on the slab when I got back into collecting about 15 years ago.

I think the rule of thumb is:
OC cards sell for 2 grades lower,
MC cards sell for 3 grades lower,
MC cards (T206) sell for 0-4 grades higher depending on severity.

Makes sense.

wdwfan · #8 11-01-2017, 12:10 PM

My CDO is exactly like yours. Like centered with a small ding on a corner better than off centered with perfect corners. Just me though.

That's why I try to be Ex-Mt to NM for all of my set needs. But even then, I'll get a card occasionally that'll either be creased/bent, which I have a thread about, or having the image basically going off the card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by texmrsport

My OCD can't deal with off center cards. I'll take a well centered card with a dinged corner over razor sharp corners on a 80/20 centered card any day.

rats60 · #9 11-01-2017, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdwfan

My CDO is exactly like yours. Like centered with a small ding on a corner better than off centered with perfect corners. Just me though.

That's why I try to be Ex-Mt to NM for all of my set needs. But even then, I'll get a card occasionally that'll either be creased/bent, which I have a thread about, or having the image basically going off the card.

My OCD is the opposite. I can't stand cards with damaged corners, creases, writing, etc. I would rather have a card a little off centered over a card that has been abused by a collector. That being said, centering has always been an issue with me. When collecting in the 60s and 70s I always looked for good centering when I had a duplicate of a card.

ls7plus · #10 10-12-2017, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57

I don't think that guys collect nicely centered cards because it is the "it" thing, as you say. Personally, I can't live with an off-centered card. It drives me nuts. Call it OCD or whatever, but I love symmetry. It is just more pleasant to look at. I know that there are many more out there like me.

I collect rare Cobb postcards that have populations FAR lower than the T206 Wagner, and while I may be forced to buy an off-centered copy because it may be the last time I will see one for 10 years, I would hate the card. It would irk me into madness. On more common cards, it isn't a matter of how much more I would pay for the centered one, because the off-centered one isn't even a consideration. I doubt that the bidders on the two Play Ball cards were even the same guys. We collectors are a special kind of crazy.

I think that the rarer and more significant the card, Orly, the more tolerant the buyer will be of centering and even condition in general. With the Cobbs you (and I) are talking about, if you don't see one for ten years, it is IMHO quite likely that the price will be significantly higher by that time. A good collectible, measured by such standards, will generally appreciate at around 12% compounded annually, meaning it will double in value every six years. Key cards such as you are speaking of may well do significantly better than that--perhaps 14 or 18% compounded annually, meaning they will double, respectively, every 5 or 4 years. After all, one can always upgrade, provided the funds to do so are available.

Highest regards,

Larry

orly57 · #11 10-12-2017, 06:11 PM

Larry, if I find a Hubel Ty Cobb, it could be missing his head and I would buy it.

Leon · #12 10-13-2017, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57

Larry, if I find a Hubel Ty Cobb, it could be missing his head and I would buy it.

LOL....I guess centering isn't always too important depending on the card.

Doing a T205 set with great centering is a difficult project. Especially due to upgrading when a better one comes around ...

OsFan · #13 10-13-2017, 10:07 AM

I�m in the pack fresh over centering camp. Always have been. I don�t remember centering being as big an issue prior to professional grading companies but I may be wrong.
Fortunately it makes participating in the hobby easier on the wallet.
In the 80s I absolutely did not even notice centering or realize it was even a thing. Now since I�ve seen it�s important to lots of collectors I pay more attention since I sometimes sell. I wish I could go back to being oblivious to it ha.

Leon · #14 10-16-2017, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsFan

I’m in the pack fresh over centering camp. Always have been. I don’t remember centering being as big an issue prior to professional grading companies but I may be wrong.
Fortunately it makes participating in the hobby easier on the wallet.
In the 80s I absolutely did not even notice centering or realize it was even a thing. Now since I’ve seen it’s important to lots of collectors I pay more attention since I sometimes sell. I wish I could go back to being oblivious to it ha.

As has been said, centering seems to be more important on stand alone, key cards, than on more common ones. Only a fool would try to do a whole set with great centering.

BeanTown · #15 10-31-2017, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57

Larry, if I find a Hubel Ty Cobb, it could be missing his head and I would buy it.

Hubel Cobb even looks good on a fantasy Ramly. I believe the known population on Cobb Hubel is a mere two. So, would this change the pop to 2.5 if you cut his head off?

orly57 · #16 10-31-2017, 11:02 PM

I will buy the lower half off you right now. You keep the upper torso.

BeanTown · #17 10-31-2017, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57

I will buy the lower half off you right now. You keep the upper torso.

Hoping to upgrade one day, and then you can have both torsos.

glynparson · #18 11-01-2017, 05:47 AM

I started doing larger shows like Willow Grove and the Gloria Rothstein shows in 1990, when I turned 18. Before I did the bigger shows I was unaware how much centering mattered to many people. But I have been aware that many advanced collectors have been very keen on centering for at least the last 27 years. Before that I was limited to what I learned at local shows, shops, magazines, books, and antique markets. Centering is NOT a fad and has been a key component in getting top dollar for cards for a long time.

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