Aaron Judge

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

and there it goes!!

and there went #50!!!

[packs]

Congrats to Aaron! What an amazing season.

[pokerplyr80]

Yea this has been a lot of fun to watch. I can't wait to see what he does in the playoffs.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by packs

Congrats to Aaron! What an amazing season.

Absolutely!!! A great achievement for a great kid! I can't see him winning the MVP, however, after essentially having gone awol for a month and a half.

Best regards,

Larry

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Absolutely!!! A great achievement for a great kid! I can't see him winning the MVP, however, after essentially having gone awol for a month and a half.

Best regards,

Larry

Nope, but ROY and likely top 3 MVP is not bad for a guy I was thinking I was being overly optimistic by hoping he might turn into the next Jay Buhner or Richie Sexson about a 1/2 year ago.

[JDeMarzo]

So is this is a good time to grade his auto numbered cards?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JDeMarzo

So is this is a good time to grade his auto numbered cards?

If they are very high grade and you are selling it is.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by bnorth

and there went #50!!!

...and so goes the only legit (IMO) home run record Mark McGwire ever held.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think he finishes second behind Altuve in MVP. Very impressive how he turned it around after an epic slump, and indeed how he ascended after a long and unspectacular minor league career. A great story.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think he finishes second behind Altuve in MVP. Very impressive how he turned it around after an epic slump, and indeed how he ascended after a long and unspectacular minor league career. A great story.

Give it about a year, and noone will remember any 'epic' slump. Its not a slump if you end up with 50 homers ...its just called a normal baseball season.

Im sure there are lots of .285 35 homer and 100+ rbi seaons of players were had horrible slumps in that year. Noone will remember that. 50 homers in not a full season...c'mon.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Give it about a year, and noone will remember any 'epic' slump. Its not a slump if you end up with 50 homers ...its just called a normal baseball season.

Im sure there are lots of .285 35 homer and 100+ rbi seaons of players were had horrible slumps in that year. Noone will remember that. 50 homers in not a full season...c'mon.

This is not true. In 1995 Albert Belle hit 50 Hrs in 143 games .317/.401/.690 leading the league in runs, doubles, HRs, RBIs, slugging and total bases, but lost the MVP to Mo Vaughn who had much worse stats. WAR Belle 6.9 to Vaughn 4.3. OPS+ Belle 177 to Vaughn 144.

The problem was that Belle went on a tear the last two months of the season, hitting 31 of his 50 Hrs. At the end of July the Indians were in first place by 17 games. Vaughn had great clutch stats and tied Belle in RBIs. Belle was the better player and had the better season, but he did his damage when it didn't matter. Vaughn was more valuable. People will remember, especially if Judge does not win MVP.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rats60

This is not true. In 1995 Albert Belle hit 50 Hrs in 143 games .317/.401/.690 leading the league in runs, doubles, HRs, RBIs, slugging and total bases, but lost the MVP to Mo Vaughn who had much worse stats. WAR Belle 6.9 to Vaughn 4.3. OPS+ Belle 177 to Vaughn 144.

The problem was that Belle went on a tear the last two months of the season, hitting 31 of his 50 Hrs. At the end of July the Indians were in first place by 17 games. Vaughn had great clutch stats and tied Belle in RBIs. Belle was the better player and had the better season, but he did his damage when it didn't matter. Vaughn was more valuable. People will remember, especially if Judge does not win MVP.

I was not giving an opinion about MVP....i was saying that years from now when you look at stats you arent going to remember or think Judge had an 'epic' slump when you see his statistics. Basically its not an epic slump when you end up with those stats. An epic slump is like Fernando Rodney last year or Jack Armstrong years ago ....guys whos season total season was considered bad even though the first half was at an all star level.....the entire season for Judge was outstanding. It just cant be an epic slump if your season ends up elite

[MattyC]

One has to love how the steady, calm, poised Aaron Judge let his play shift the public discussion. Earlier in the season, there were those trying to knock him, calling him Kevin Maas or Jeremy Lin. Now the debate has shifted to whether or not he is the MVP— as a rookie. It's worth hanging a lantern on what that sheer pivot says about the fine year this young man has put together.

Baseball is one heck of a hard game. Playing in the midst of the Category 5 media maelstrom that Judge has makes his carriage and performance all the more impressive to me.

I'm hard pressed to remember another instance when a veteran said it's an honor to play with a rookie; that says a great deal. “He went through it and just kept working,’’ Todd Frazier said on Monday. “That’s very hard to come back from, but that’s his mentality, his personality. It’s incredible, hitting 50, and for him to be as humble as he is, it’s an honor to play with him.”

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think he finishes second behind Altuve in MVP. Very impressive how he turned it around after an epic slump, and indeed how he ascended after a long and unspectacular minor league career. A great story.

I would put him behind Altuve and Ramirez, two great seasons on the two teams fighting for the best record. I can't get over Judge's two month slump. The Yankees had a better record during that slump than the rest of the season. That doesn't say most valuable to me.

[packs]

Altuve is having a great year but I'm not sure he's the most valuable player. The Astros are loaded and while he's having the best year among them, the team is stacked.

I feel the same way about Ramirez. Is he having that much better of a year than Lindor that he would be top 3 and Lindor wouldn't?

But on the Yankees it was all Judge for the entire first half of the season. I don't believe they would have clinched a wild card spot without Judge. They had a better winning percentage in the second half but scored 120 less runs while Judge slumped. That to me shows how important his performance is to the team.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

They had a better winning percentage in the second half but scored 120 less runs while Judge slumped.

That right there is why he isn't the MVP. He let his team down in the second half. Had he played well in the second half would the Yankees have to settle for a wild card playoff game (I know it isn't set in stone yet, but they are 4 games back still)?

Altuve was consistent for his team all year long.

Altuve 1st half: .347ba/.417obp/.551slg/.968ops
Alutve 2nd half: .349ba/.409obp/.559slg/.968ops

Judge 1st half: .329ba/.448obp/.691slg/1.139ops
Judge 2nd half: .221ba/.379obp/.527slg/.906ops

First half Judge was the MVP for the Yankees, but the second half he was a detriment to the team just coming back for the final month.

[packs]

I feel like its a chicken or the egg situation. Had Judge not played so well in the first half the Yankees might not have had a second half to play for. But even in his slump it was only really a slump for him. I mean the average is unsightly but the OPS and slugging, during his worst moments of the season, nearly match Altuve's peak.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

That right there is why he isn't the MVP. He let his team down in the second half. Had he played well in the second half would the Yankees have to settle for a wild card playoff game (I know it isn't set in stone yet, but they are 4 games back still)?

Altuve was consistent for his team all year long.

Altuve 1st half: .347ba/.417obp/.551slg/.968ops
Alutve 2nd half: .349ba/.409obp/.559slg/.968ops

Judge 1st half: .329ba/.448obp/.691slg/1.139ops
Judge 2nd half: .221ba/.379obp/.527slg/.906ops

First half Judge was the MVP for the Yankees, but the second half he was a detriment to the team just coming back for the final month.

To whoever has been arguing Judge just had a typical season with ups and downs: not.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

Altuve is having a great year but I'm not sure he's the most valuable player. The Astros are loaded and while he's having the best year among them, the team is stacked.

I feel the same way about Ramirez. Is he having that much better of a year than Lindor that he would be top 3 and Lindor wouldn't?

But on the Yankees it was all Judge for the entire first half of the season. I don't believe they would have clinched a wild card spot without Judge. They had a better winning percentage in the second half but scored 120 less runs while Judge slumped. That to me shows how important his performance is to the team.

Ramirez has a WAR of 6.5 to 5.3 for Lindor. OPS+ 143 to 118. Ramirez is having a huge September .431/.467/1.000 at a time when Indians have gone 29-2 and went from hoping to make the playoffs to best record in the league. He is the true MVP despite not having the WAR of Altuve or OPS+ of Judge or Trout.

On the other hand Judge was small when the Yankees were cementing themselves in the first wild card. I disagree with you, I don't think the Yankees are 10 games worse without Judge. I think they are a wild card with or without him.

[packs]

I think some of that disparity between Ramirez and Lindor comes down to Lindor's poor first half though. He's hitting 50 points higher in the second half and slugging over 100 points higher. He had a lot of ground to make up to get where he is.