1933 Goudey (Ruth) Market currently?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by orly57

I know this is an unpopular stance, but I don't get the whole Goudey Ruth thing. I've owned all 4, and they are very nice cards. I get that they are playing-era cards of the most iconic figure in sports. My issues are: 1. They were released 18 years into his career (the season before he retired). 2. They are renderings, rather than photos. And 3. There are about 1,000 of each in the psa population alone. I didn't check sgc, but I know they have graded a ton as well. They are far from rare. And that doesn't even include the WWG pop.
So while I do think they are attractive cards of the game's greatest figure, I don't really see why they are so revered in contrast to far earlier and more rare Ruth cards. You may bash me now.

i agree...but they are popular for this very reason that they are readily available in all conditions!

[mechanicalman]

What I don't understand is why the WWG versions, which are significantly more rare, sell at a fairly steep discount to the US counterparts. It begs the question: is there an anti-Canadian bias in vintage cardboard? I'm asking half-jokingly, but I'm curious to hear thoughts. Irv-where are you at on this topic?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

What I don't understand is why the WWG versions, which are significantly more rare, sell at a fairly steep discount to the US counterparts. It begs the question: is there an anti-Canadian bias in vintage cardboard? I'm asking half-jokingly, but I'm curious to hear thoughts. Irv-where are you at on this topic?

This is because of set collectors. The 1933 Goudey set is a pretty popular set for set collectors, so folks have to get all 4 Ruths too in order to complete their set. (Most skip the Lajoie similar to how T206 set collectors often skip the Big 4.) The WWG is not a commonly collected set which decreases the demand for the Ruth in that set.

I don't own any of the Goudey Ruth's right now, but I prefer the Blue Bird image to the Goudey 144.

[CW]

Originally Posted by glchen

This is because of set collectors. The 1933 Goudey set is a pretty popular set for set collectors, so folks have to get all 4 Ruths too in order to complete their set.

Agree and that's a good point. Not only do you have the set collector factor, but it's also arguably one of the top 3 collected sets in the hobby along with T206 and 1952 Topps.

And with regards to, as Orlando put it, "why they are so revered in contrast to far earlier and more rare Ruth cards..." I don't think this is necessarily the case at all. The more rare Ruth cards are definitely revered in the hobby, but many collectors simply don't pursue them because they are so rare. The casual collector may not even know about such issues, let alone follow the auction houses that sell them.

The more esoteric Ruth cards are definitely increasing in value over the past few years, and I believe at a higher rate than the '33 Goudey Ruth cards, although I have no exact figures to back that up. The gap is narrowing, especially as more collectors gain knowledge and learn about the rarer issues.

Finally, some collectors might actually prefer a colorful, artistic rendering of a player over a black and white photo.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

What I don't understand is why the WWG versions, which are significantly more rare, sell at a fairly steep discount to the US counterparts. It begs the question: is there an anti-Canadian bias in vintage cardboard? I'm asking half-jokingly, but I'm curious to hear thoughts. Irv-where are you at on this topic?

yes there is!

[prestigecollectibles]

Picked this up recently. Definitely my favorite card in the set.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

What I don't understand is why the WWG versions, which are significantly more rare, sell at a fairly steep discount to the US counterparts. It begs the question: is there an anti-Canadian bias in vintage cardboard? I'm asking half-jokingly, but I'm curious to hear thoughts. Irv-where are you at on this topic?

In this case, yes....a huge bias. Goudey Gum Co. and baseball are American. I venture to guess at some point I'll tackle a vintage hockey set, and when I do it'll be OPC or Parkhurst.

[orly57]

All excellent points. Pretty sure the '32 Caramel is the first standard issue "color" Ruth by the way. There are some strip cards with color.

[Bigshot69]

If PSA shows pop 1000 on the census how many of those have been cracked and resubbed? How many of the SGC holders have been crossed over to PSAs? Assuming there are 1500-2000 gradeable copies of each Ruth card is it reasonable to speculate there are more than 2000 collectors out there who want one of each? The law of supply and demand would apply here, no?

[orly57]

Sam, we don't like no KSA or O-Pee-Chee here in 'Merica!

Adam, I understand supply and demand. That wasn't the point of the post. The question I essentially posed, if you want to put in terms of supply and demand, is "why such a high demand for 4 cards that are way late in Ruth's career and aren't particularly rare?" And for every card that was cracked and resubmitted there is a raw copy in some album somewhere. The pop isn't gospel, it just gives us a general idea of how many are out there.

[brob28]

Originally Posted by orly57

Sam, we don't like no KSA or O-Pee-Chee here in 'Merica!

Adam, I understand supply and demand. That wasn't the point of the post. The question I essentially posed, if you want to put in terms of supply and demand, is "why such a high demand for 4 cards that are way late in Ruth's career and aren't particularly rare?"

A big part is affordability - not many collectors can afford a Baltimore News Ruth or some others. I'm not certain of this but isn't the Goudey the first card that doesn't show a black and white image? Could be a factor as well for some.

[Bigshot69]

Originally Posted by orly57

Sam, we don't like no KSA or O-Pee-Chee here in 'Merica!

Adam, I understand supply and demand. That wasn't the point of the post. The question I essentially posed, if you want to put in terms of supply and demand, is "why such a high demand for 4 cards that are way late in Ruth's career and aren't particularly rare?" And for every card that was cracked and resubmitted there is a raw copy in some album somewhere. The pop isn't gospel, it just gives us a general idea of how many are out there.

Absolutely, Orlando. I guess with Ruth being the among the most recognizable athletes throughout history combined with the 1933 Goudey being among the top 2 or 3 most collectible vintage sets helps set the floor in terms of price. I'd love a Baltimore News rookie or a M 101-4 but while I would gain a great card I would also probably lose a great wife.