Did PSA get a free pass on The American Greed show?

[Mdmtx]

My assumption on the lack of PSA coverage, is fear of legal repercussions. PSA offers an opinion of quality of a card, and opinions are only that, nothing more. As far as I know, they are not embroiled in any criminal case. No basis for the show to sling mud on them.

Mark Medlin

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

My assumption on the lack of PSA coverage, is fear of legal repercussions. PSA offers an opinion of quality of a card, and opinions are only that, nothing more. As far as I know, they are not embroiled in any criminal case. No basis for the show to sling mud on them.

Mark Medlin

They are only opinions, you are correct, but the mud slinging is well justified.

Hypothetical conversation in the office of people who get paid for their opinions :

Person 1 - "this card looks trimmed"
Person 2 - "well then we need another card to be the first card we grade"
Person 3 - "Doesn't look trimmed to me, looks like an 8"

Whether person 1 is lower than person 2 who is lower than person 3 in the pecking order in this hypothetical conversation is unknown to me.

Doug

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

They are only opinions, you are correct, but the mud slinging is well justified.

Hypothetical conversation in the office of people who get paid for their opinions :

Person 1 - "this card looks trimmed"
Person 2 - "well then we need another card to be the first card we grade"
Person 3 - "Doesn't look trimmed to me, looks like an 8"

Whether person 1 is lower than person 2 who is lower than person 3 in the pecking order in this hypothetical conversation is unknown to me.

Doug

Read The Card. If memory serves, the guy who graded it, Bill Hughes, said he and everyone else present at the creation knew it was trimmed.

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

They are only opinions, you are correct, but the mud slinging is well justified.

Hypothetical conversation in the office of people who get paid for their opinions :

Person 1 - "this card looks trimmed"
Person 2 - "well then we need another card to be the first card we grade"
Person 3 - "Doesn't look trimmed to me, looks like an 8"

Whether person 1 is lower than person 2 who is lower than person 3 in the pecking order in this hypothetical conversation is unknown to me.

Doug

Doug,

I am not defending psa at all. But I doubt that any person or entity would make accusations or claims against an opinion based company unless it had PROOF of fraud. If they do so without proof, psa would own them.

Mark

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Doug,

I am not defending psa at all. But I doubt that any person or entity would make accusations or claims against an opinion based company unless it had PROOF of fraud. If they do so without proof, psa would own them.

Mark

Right, and that's what they hide behind, because you can't "prove" what the opinion of another person is.

All they have to do is lie about what their own opinion is, which serves the triple purpose of saving their asses from legal issues, making a boatload of money / business for their company, and ruining the fun of the hobby.

How great is it for the entire business of paying people for their opinions that the first paid opinion was a lie, we know it's a lie, and it's still ignored as a lie.

Barry's comment about "close enough" is aiming in the right direction, but the more to the point - they lie because it makes them money.

Doug

[oldjudge]

Too many powerful people have too much money tied up in the PSA registry; in my opinion they are essentially bullet proof.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Too many powerful people have too much money tied up in the PSA registry; in my opinion they are essentially bullet proof.

Yep

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Too many powerful people have too much money tied up in the PSA registry; in my opinion they are essentially bullet proof.

Sort of like our banks, too big to fail? There is some truth to that, even if a major scandal broke, most guys would find a way to justify going on as usual, and the damage would be controlled.

[Dpeck100]

I saw the PDF file of the names involved. There was a Peter Spaeth on it. Not the most common name. Peter is that you or another Peter Spaeth?

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sort of like our banks, too big to fail? There is some truth to that, even if a major scandal broke, most guys would find a way to justify going on as usual, and the damage would be controlled.

Everybody (who uses the people who get paid for their opinions) already finds a way to justify it, remember that part about the first card being a lie?

Doug

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

My assumption on the lack of PSA coverage, is fear of legal repercussions. PSA offers an opinion of quality of a card, and opinions are only that, nothing more. As far as I know, they are not embroiled in any criminal case. No basis for the show to sling mud on them.

Mark Medlin

No basis...They're a paid service. Supposedly card experts. And they can't tell a trimmed card? The most famous card in the history of cards no less. They should be buried in mud for that. How anybody can send them money after that is beyond me.

Well...like P.T. Barnum said...

[Section103]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

No basis...They're a paid service. Supposedly card experts. And they can't tell a trimmed card? The most famous card in the history of cards no less. They should be buried in mud for that. How anybody can send them money after that is beyond me.

Well...like P.T. Barnum said...

For hobbyists, PSAs ineptitude or corruption is a big deal. For the average person watching CNBC, they don't really care about PSA unless they can be submerged in scandal. For the reasons above, CNBC can't really do that without significant liability. They can say PDA missed it and the general public will yawn.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I just saw the CNBC bonus features. This is another scam that I wasn't aware of. This raises several questions:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/2...nce-faked.html

Was the Plank graded by PSA or SGC?

What ever happen to the card? Did the grading company buy it back or is it in another "high profile" collection in elite registry status?

[PiratesWS1979]

Interesting about the Plank. About '98 or '99 someone was selling a few professionally restored Goudey Ruth and Gehrig on eBay. These cards looked almost perfect stating they were restored with donor cards and very little restoration was needed.

Does anyone remember them and know what happened to them?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

Interesting about the Plank. About '98 or '99 someone was selling a few professionally restored Goudey Ruth and Gehrig on eBay. These cards looked almost perfect stating they were restored with donor cards and very little restoration was needed.

Does anyone remember them and know what happened to them?

I don't remember those exact cards. I do remember the people doing the restoring openly advertising their work in that time frame. They made it sound like they could take a beater and turn it into a mint card using other cards of the same year for donor parts.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

Interesting about the Plank. About '98 or '99 someone was selling a few professionally restored Goudey Ruth and Gehrig on eBay. These cards looked almost perfect stating they were restored with donor cards and very little restoration was needed.

Does anyone remember them and know what happened to them?

Yes, I remember. He was around even before then, early 1990s or 1980s. I think he put a pen dot on the back of the cards to identify them, and I assume the built up borders would show up under blacklight or holding up the card to a light (opacity). It was before blacklights were commonly used, and I assume the restoration would be easy to identify.

He was was overt about what he was doing and sold them for what they were-- restored cards. The concern was about deception by later sellers.

Also, if I recall correctly, the guy quit doing it years back, because he became allergic to substances used.

[taul166]

I a member of PSA, have registry sets, etc....

But, weren't some of PSA's expert board members identified as participants in the shilling scheme? If so, should they still be on PSA's board today?