Worst player in any Hall of Fame

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by rats60

Yes it is obvious. He belongs in the middle of the Hof class. Never said he was the best QB of his era, he was just better than some contemporaries in the Hof. Nice strawman though.

Namath was also voted the greatest QB in AFL history, over Griese, Dawson and Lamonica. I'll take the word of those yutz who saw them play over some random internet poster who probably didn't.

appeal to authority logical fallacy. The stats tell us who he is, not some proclamation by a self described expert/sportswriter. Namath is not only NOT EVEN CLOSE to a HOF'er. he is BY FAR the worst QB in it.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

appeal to authority logical fallacy. The stats tell us who he is, not some proclamation by a self described expert/sportswriter. Namath is not only NOT EVEN CLOSE to a HOF'er. he is BY FAR the worst QB in it.

Just because you can't win at fantasy football with Namath, doesn't mean he wasn't a Hofer. I trust experts over someone who doesn't understand the stats he quotes. Completion percentage is a bad stat. From 1965-74, Namath had the lowest sack rate, highest yards per completion and highest net yards per attempt of any quarterback. That was because Namath had a quick release and was able to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack and losing yards. To those that play the game, that is a good thing.

Even when you consider his high number of interceptions with adjusted net yards per attempt, Namath is still 3rd, .05 yards behind Hofer Fran Tarkenton, .01 yards behind Hofer Sonny Jorgensen and ahead of Hofers Len Dawson and Bob Griese.

When you throw in the NFL records he set for yards in a season, only QB to throw for 4k yards under the old rules, and 3 3k passing yards seasons, 2 MVPs as well as his Super Bowl, Namath is a no brainer for the Hof.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by rats60

Just because you can't win at fantasy football with Namath, doesn't mean he wasn't a Hofer. I trust experts over someone who doesn't understand the stats he quotes. Completion percentage is a bad stat. From 1965-74, Namath had the lowest sack rate, highest yards per completion and highest net yards per attempt of any quarterback. That was because Namath had a quick release and was able to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack and losing yards. To those that play the game, that is a good thing.

Even when you consider his high number of interceptions with adjusted net yards per attempt, Namath is still 3rd, .05 yards behind Hofer Fran Tarkenton, .01 yards behind Hofer Sonny Jorgensen and ahead of Hofers Len Dawson and Bob Griese.

When you throw in the NFL records he set for yards in a season, only QB to throw for 4k yards under the old rules, and 3 3k passing yards seasons, 2 MVPs as well as his Super Bowl, Namath is a no brainer for the Hof.

A- modern stats have nothing to do with fantasy football you decrepit old man, just because you live in the past doesn't mean the rest of us have to as well

B- when your appoximate value number is next to Sims and Batkowski you are not a HOF'er now matter how you try and cherry pick

C- completion % is THE MOST IMPORTANT STAT FOR QUARTERBACKS, if you can't hit what you are aiming at, what good are you? 60% is considered acceptable under that and you are becoming a bum

D- Namath is a bum, the most overrated player in the history of the NFL anf unworthy of even a hall of the pretty good.

[packs]

I don't think Namath is a HOFer for the same reason I don't think Reggie Jackson is. When you have more interceptions than touchdowns, or more strike outs than hits, there is something glaring about that kind of stat. It doesn't suggest all time great to me.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think Namath is a HOFer for the same reason I don't think Reggie Jackson is. When you have more interceptions than touchdowns, or more strike outs than hits, there is something glaring about that kind of stat. It doesn't suggest all time great to me.

Does that mean you don't think Jim Thome is a HOFer?

I do.

[packs]

Touche. Still don't think Reggie is though.

[mikemb]

For any player in any hall of fame, I'm sure there are some or many who think they do not belong, for one reason or another.

I really enjoyed watching Joe Namath play. To me, he made the AFL. He did what he had to do to win. Statistics can be interpreted any way you want by any number of people.

Mike

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

A- modern stats have nothing to do with fantasy football you decrepit old man, just because you live in the past doesn't mean the rest of us have to as well

B- when your appoximate value number is next to Sims and Batkowski you are not a HOF'er now matter how you try and cherry pick

C- completion % is THE MOST IMPORTANT STAT FOR QUARTERBACKS, if you can't hit what you are aiming at, what good are you? 60% is considered acceptable under that and you are becoming a bum

D- Namath is a bum, the most overrated player in the history of the NFL anf unworthy of even a hall of the pretty good.

Completion % can be important, but is there a modern stat that covers drops related to completion %?

It's going back a ways, but I recall the moment I stopped caring about completion %. A game where Bledsoe was being ripped a bit by the announcers for having a "bad game" because he was something like 6/12....Of course they didn't mention the two passes that hit open receivers on the number and still ended up on the ground. Or the one that hit the receiver on the hands that simply didn't get caught. So he should have been 9/12, maybe better.
And do they eliminate when the QB throws the ball away?
drops and intentional throw aways are entirely different from bad passes.

And how bad was Namaths completion %? I checked a couple years. 1966, he had a 49.3% rate. The league average was 46.3 and the best team was at 52.8%
So not actually too bad.
Oh, but you'll say the entire AFL was awful.
So lets try 72?
Namath 50%
League average 51.7
Best team 59.9

Ok, so below average by 1.7% or about 4 completions.
BUT.... NO passer was "acceptable" by your standards.
That's nonsense.

Comparing eras isn't easy.

Stats in FB aren't as clear as stats in Baseball. There a player either hits or doesn't pretty much on his own. (Lineup matters, but he still has to hit) In FB many of the stats rely not only on the player doing what he should, but on other players doing their thing right too.

Steve B

[bravos4evr]

moving the goal posts logical fallacy.


Namath was below avg for completion % in his era you say? NOT A HOF player then.


approximate value is a good modern football stat btw and it lists him as an avg QB not good, and surely not a HOF'er, only Namath fanboys and old farts think differently and neither have an opinion worth listening too

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

moving the goal posts logical fallacy.


Namath was below avg for completion % in his era you say? NOT A HOF player then.


approximate value is a good modern football stat btw and it lists him as an avg QB not good, and surely not a HOF'er, only Namath fanboys and old farts think differently and neither have an opinion worth listening too

NO, I only did 1966 when he was above, and 1972 when he was below. Overall from what I saw of completion percentages during those years there wasn't much swing above or below average for anyone.

You picked 60% as "adequate" and in 72 only the league leader was over 60%. From 1960- 70, out of 22 league leaders only 9 were over 60%
For the entire 1960's the league average never got over 54% and that was only one year, most others were just under 52%
Unitas - never broke 60% for a season.
Bart Starr - was only over 60% 4 times in 16 years.
Tarkenton - didn't go over 60% from 1961 to 1972

So I guess they sucked too?


Get away from the calculator and watch a few games. Then YOU might be worth listening to.

[TUM301]

If there`s any one player more responsible for the NFL being what it is today, the most popular and profitable pro enterprise going, I`d like to know. Broadway Joe was exactly what the AFL needed and was" at the right place at the right time". Bama to New York for him, he and they basically lit the fuse and took an "air it out attitude", attitude being the key, and gave the public a different look. Stats are one thing, and they mean a lot when talking H O F, but influence and history have to be taken into account. Do I take Namath as my "go to" to win me one game, probably not. But there are very few moments in American sports lore that were more influential than the Jets/Colts S Bowl. Namath`s on and off the field approach at a time when media was very limited made him and the moment a HOF`er for me. Just my 2 cents.................

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by TUM301

If there`s any one player more responsible for the NFL being what it is today, the most popular and profitable pro enterprise going, I`d like to know. Broadway Joe was exactly what the AFL needed and was" at the right place at the right time". Bama to New York for him, he and they basically lit the fuse and took an "air it out attitude", attitude being the key, and gave the public a different look. Stats are one thing, and they mean a lot when talking H O F, but influence and history have to be taken into account. Do I take Namath as my "go to" to win me one game, probably not. But there are very few moments in American sports lore that were more influential than the Jets/Colts S Bowl. Namath`s on and off the field approach at a time when media was very limited made him and the moment a HOF`er for me. Just my 2 cents.................

The best was watching those "old fart" NFL supporters who put down Namath, the Jets and the entire AFL eat, swallow and choke on their words after the game.

Mike