The real truth about Peter Nash

[BeanTown]

Just posted online.

http://peternashpublicdocuments.com/

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Incredible that someone could get away with so much fraud. He's done a good job of propagating outright lies to mask his own illegal behavior. He'd be a great hire in D.C. as someone's spokesman

[Leon]

There is still hope he lands in jail for a long time. And there are some prominent board members who actually like this criminal.

.

[rjackson44]

This is a good one for this television series. Seems like a nut job

[bobbyw8469]

I'm guessing the royalties from "The Gas Face" aren't as lucrative as one would think..... :-p

[tazdmb]

I know what I am doing the rest of today

[samosa4u]

The cease and desist notice is 411 pages? LOL! I don't even think a Hollywood script is that big.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

The cease and desist notice is 411 pages? LOL! I don't even think a Hollywood script is that big.

Exhibits.

[Kevin Savage]

Wow this is like Moby Dick..... really gets good about page 200...... just kidding- I don't read real fast (spent more time buying collections than going to class in college....) and need to carve out the better part of a month to read the whole thing.... but found what I had time to read to be very interesting..... Thanks for posting!

[Rich Klein]

remind me never to get Mr. Lifson upset at me

[Cooptown]

I have always been intrigued by Peter Nash. His brother Brian was an asst coach at my college (St. Bonaventure) and was the nicest guy. Women loved him. I had a buddy that thought about becoming a team manager and that was his contact. He mentioned to me one time; did you know Brian Nash's brother Peter was in Third Base and it always stuck with me.

When I re-entered the hobby after college, I heard his name a lot and had have read some of his articles. The HOS twitter account has been very active lately with the selling of the Sheen/Ruth items. I have always wondered who exactly Peter Nash was, outside of a controversial blogger and former rapper. Collector? Writer? What were his motivations? But any thread on him seemed like a hot topic and there were many pages (too lazy to comb through it all).

I guess this 411 page document outlines it all.

[irv]

I don't know American law, and not much about CDN law either, but what are the chances the individual who wrote the cease and desist letter ever collects any of his money?

I can also assume Peter Nash is in hiding or his whereabouts are unknown, but if he is ever located, can his assets be sold (if he has any?) to help pay off the award?

[Cooptown]

Originally Posted by irv

I don't know American law, and not much about CDN law either, but what are the chances the individual who wrote the cease and desist letter ever collects any of his money?

I can also assume Peter Nash is in hiding or his whereabouts are unknown, but if he is ever located, can his assets be sold (if he has any?) to help pay off the award?

I'm also curious to know how many people are behind Halls of Shame? The HOS twitter account was active this morning. Is Peter Nash still posting and "liking" or are there many people with access to their twitter account.

Is there a Cliff's note version to who Peter Nash is?

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

The cease and desist notice is 411 pages? LOL! I don't even think a Hollywood script is that big.

1 page per minute is the rule of thumb for Hollywood.

[Keith H. Thompson]

About a month ago in between a special Fenway Park Tour and the evening game vs Detroit I had lunch with Peter Nash at the McGreevy Bar on Boyleston Street. I was with my son and innocent four year old twin granddaughters, and Peter was the perfect host.

The Fenway Park tour was great. One gets to go behind the scoreboard in left field and see the physical signage and the cramped quarters. It is difficult for two people to pass. I believe entrance is only through the playing field door made notorious by Manny Ramirez who occasionally ducked in for a sandwich (or something or nothing) between innings. I'm told there is no air conditioning or running water nor did I see any. Ended with a very good buffet luncheon hosted by Dick Flavin, a former Red Sox announcer and Poet Laureate.

The Detroit game not so good for a life long Detroit fan "whose world still tips a little when the Tigers lose."

I would like to see a count of hands for anyone who believes that the Charlie Sheen Ruth 1927 World Series Ring was "resized for Claire Ruth in homage to her husband."

Keith H Thompson

[hcv123]

Pop goes the Weasel! I guess when your knee deep in Sh--, you are going to get dirty!! I have no ties or allegiances to any of the parties (other than having consigned once and bid in RE auctions) . I have read a lot of the historical documentation on HOS and the little that has been put out by REA - While I am sure there is A lot of BS exaggeration in there - clearly Nash has much to answer for and at the same time I don't believe RL or REA are squeaky clean here - although clearly a hell of a lot smarter and more resourceful.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Cooptown

I'm also curious to know how many people are behind Halls of Shame? The HOS twitter account was active this morning. Is Peter Nash still posting and "liking" or are there many people with access to their twitter account.

Is there a Cliff's note version to who Peter Nash is?

That's a GREAT question Scott. In 2012 The Hauls of Shame wrote about a Peck and Snyder card That Legendary was going to auction off. They mentioned the consignor by name as a longtime collector and were unsure where the card ended up after the FBI looked at it, at the National.

Then a year or two later the HOS wrote about another Peck and Snyder card and referenced back to the longtime collector as a scumbag along with other choice words. Completely a different writing style and tune. Very obvious the writer was a different writer from the 2012 article and this new writer had a personal agenda they were trying to get out.

I believe there are a couple "prominent board members" who are in cahoots with Peter Nash. They were also most likely ghost writers on Hauls Of Shame. They used it as their soap box for whatever self serving reason they deemed fit. Sometimes a good clue when reading the HOS articles is to look at all the chest pumping adjectives when describing a person. It's very possible that the actual writer of the article was the person who was getting all the props in the article.

What does it take to become a Ghost Writer on the Hauls Of Shame?
1. Befriend and smoooze with Peter Nash to get on his goodside
2. Be a great writer who knows how to manipulate words and have an attitude.
3. Get a clever subscriber handle like "Mastro Monkey" to make posts on articles
4. Have a vandictive personality where you want reconning to occur.

Hauls Of Shame was basically a hobby tabloid that spewed out propaganda against anyone that got in their way or anyone they wanted to go after.

HOS mixed in facts with a ton of biased opinions and reckless reporting which is why they lasted about as long as the singing/dancing group known as Milli Vanilli. For those that are not famerial with the defunct band. Milli Vanilli got caught lip syncing as other people sang the songs and all these guys did was dance around the stage acting like it was them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Agenda or not, I would think anyone in possession of stolen property should return it.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agenda or not, I would think anyone in possession of stolen property should return it.

Clearly not everyone feels that way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well it sucks to spend a lot of money on something and find out it's stolen, but the last I checked a thief can't convey good title and that goes down the chain of subsequent sales, so it's unfortunate but so it goes.

[BeanTown]

It becomes art and then you hope one day they will dearchive or transfer title with a nice donation. I hear many muesuems and Liberies do this from time to time. Many victims over the last 40 years from items that have been stolen that are buried in many deep collections.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

It becomes art and then you hope one day they will dearchive or transfer title with a nice donation. I hear many muesuems and Liberies do this from time to time. Many victims over the last 40 years from items that have been stolen that are buried in many deep collections.

In other words, keep stolen property hoping the rightful owner will give up and abandon it? Wow. Don't like that code of ethics.

[botn]

Yup

[BeanTown]

Keeping on the thread, it's about Peter Nash. Peter and Greg have you ever written for Hauls Of Shame before?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Keeping on the thread, it's about Peter Nash. Peter and Greg have you ever written for Hauls Of Shame before?

No. I don't know Peter at all.

[botn]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Keeping on the thread, it's about Peter Nash. Peter and Greg have you ever written for Hauls Of Shame before?

Absolutely not. Never even posted there.

[Yoda]

If Nash has been convicted in a summary judgement of fraud presumably he is out on bail awaiting sentencing - and giving tours of Fenway! Perhaps home confinement at the old French prison in Surinam would be a suitable venue while he waits for the wheels of justice to finally turn.

[hangman62]

Just loaded his hiphop song - Pop goes the weasel , on my Ipod

Its got a beat you can dance to

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by hangman62

Just loaded his hiphop song - Pop goes the weasel , on my Ipod

Its got a beat you can dance to

Bad guys wear black, must have been a white guy that started all that.

[Cooptown]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

That's a GREAT question Scott. In 2012 The Hauls of Shame wrote about a Peck and Snyder card That Legendary was going to auction off. They mentioned the consignor by name as a longtime collector and were unsure where the card ended up after the FBI looked at it, at the National.

Then a year or two later the HOS wrote about another Peck and Snyder card and referenced back to the longtime collector as a scumbag along with other choice words. Completely a different writing style and tune. Very obvious the writer was a different writer from the 2012 article and this new writer had a personal agenda they were trying to get out.

I believe there are a couple "prominent board members" who are in cahoots with Peter Nash. They were also most likely ghost writers on Hauls Of Shame. They used it as their soap box for whatever self serving reason they deemed fit. Sometimes a good clue when reading the HOS articles is to look at all the chest pumping adjectives when describing a person. It's very possible that the actual writer of the article was the person who was getting all the props in the article.

What does it take to become a Ghost Writer on the Hauls Of Shame?
1. Befriend and smoooze with Peter Nash to get on his goodside
2. Be a great writer who knows how to manipulate words and have an attitude.
3. Get a clever subscriber handle like "Mastro Monkey" to make posts on articles
4. Have a vandictive personality where you want reconning to occur.

Hauls Of Shame was basically a hobby tabloid that spewed out propaganda against anyone that got in their way or anyone they wanted to go after.

HOS mixed in facts with a ton of biased opinions and reckless reporting which is why they lasted about as long as the singing/dancing group known as Milli Vanilli. For those that are not famerial with the defunct band. Milli Vanilli got caught lip syncing as other people sang the songs and all these guys did was dance around the stage acting like it was them.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I have long read HOS, sort of taking it with a grain of salt knowing it may not be true. But have long been fascinated with Peter Nash, having met his brother. Just too lazy to read through the hundreds and hundreds of pages written on this board about it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wouldn't necessarily take JC's view as gospel. Just sayin.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agenda or not, I would think anyone in possession of stolen property should return it.

Agreed, while I hate the unsubstantiated accusations made by Peter Nash, I would be lying if I did not admit I have learned a great deal from his website in terms of stole autographs/artifacts. Without his help, I think my collection would be littered with stolen goods that would make me feel very uncomfortable.

On I side note, I have gotten to know Bill Hasse, former Senior VP of the Hall of Fame, and flat out asked him why the HOF has not taken more steps to return some of the stolen artifacts. He told me that, unfortunately, much of the stuff that was stolen was never properly archived so that they had 100% proof, which is what the FBI wanted, to get the items returned. While other items, like the Johnson Presidential balls, was a pretty open and shut case.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

Agreed, while I hate the unsubstantiated accusations made by Peter Nash, I would be lying if I did not admit I have learned a great deal from his website in terms of stole autographs/artifacts. Without his help, I think my collection would be littered with stolen goods that would make me feel very uncomfortable.

On I side note, I have gotten to know Bill Hasse, former Senior VP of the Hall of Fame, and flat out asked him why the HOF has not taken more steps to return some of the stolen artifacts. He told me that, unfortunately, much of the stuff that was stolen was never properly archived so that they had 100% proof, which is what the FBI wanted, to get the items returned. While other items, like the Johnson Presidential balls, was a pretty open and shut case.

That's pretty much true for a lot of archives and museums. Many aren't well funded or have ups and downs. So a large collection gets "archived" which basically means boxed up hopefully in something more archival than a cardboard box, and labeled with a general idea of what's there. Like "famous person X collection, box 5 miscellaneous correspondence 1920-35" And there is sits awaiting a better cataloging, which may never happen.

I don't know how detailed they are about stuff that gets deaccessioned these days, hopefully they make a detailed record. But years ago if you had something the current director wanted and asked to swap for something from "one of those boxes in the basement" you might just get what you wanted. One of the people running the national stamp collection at one time would have stuff specially printed to trade for items they needed. Not exactly on the up and up, but at the time it was accepted. And there weren't many records kept at all.

It's not a good situation, and makes stuff prone to theft.

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

JC, now that I've answered your question about whether I ever posted on Nash's site, please answer one of mine: has the NYPL -- the owner of the stolen Peck and Snyder in question -- asked you to return it?

[Bpm0014]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Bad guys wear black, must have been a white guy that started all that.

With those little white lies....

- 3rd Bass

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

JC, now that I've answered your question about whether I ever posted on Nash's site, please answer one of mine: has the NYPL -- the owner of the stolen Peck and Snyder in question -- asked you to return it?

If I were JC I would not only not answer your question I might just tell you to F off.

.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He can do what he wants, Leon, but JC raised the subject himself in post 17, and then purported to justify not returning stolen property in post 21. So I'm just asking a logical follow up question.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He can do what he wants, Leon, but JC raised the subject himself in post 17, and then purported to justify not returning stolen property in post 21. So I'm just asking a logical follow up question.

Forget the not telling you part, i would just say F OFF to you if I were him. I have firsthand knowledge very few (except one close hobby friend) have on returning things to the NYPL . Just my opinion, everyone has one, some more informed than others. I am done but I will tell you this, I am 100% on JC's side on this.

.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Forget the not telling you part, i would just say F OFF to you if I were him. I have firsthand knowledge very few (except one close hobby friend) have on returning things to the NYPL . Just my opinion, everyone has one, some more informed than others. I am done but I will tell you this, I am 100% on JC's side on this.

.

I am sure he is glad of your support.

[david_l]

I don't want to stir the pot but Leon, it seems like you're taking a hear/see no evil philosophy to items stolen from archives and other public collections. You seem like a decent guy so I guess I just want to clarify.

I don't want to turn this into a flame war or anything but being that I'm an archivist myself, it's important for me to understand the viewpoint of the board's moderator/owner so I can make my own decision if I should keep participating in the community. I do know the history of your card and the NYPL. Your previous statement gave me pause though.

Post #21 talks about hoping to wait out an archive with the hopes that stolen materials will eventually be legally yours (not likely btw). That deeply concerns me on many different levels. What about you?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by david_l

I don't want to stir the pot but Leon, it seems like you're taking a hear/see no evil philosophy to items stolen from archives and other public collections. You seem like a decent guy so I guess I just want to clarify.

I don't want to turn this into a flame war or anything but being that I'm an archivist myself, it's important for me to understand the viewpoint of the board's moderator/owner so I can make my own decision if I should keep participating in the community. I do know the history of your card and the NYPL. Your previous statement gave me pause though.

Post #21 talks about hoping to wait an archive out so that stolen materials will eventually be [I]legally[\/i] yours. That deeply concerns me on many different levels. What about you?

David, From what I have been told by reliable sources I believe the NYPL committed gross negligence many (20?) years ago in not trying to get their stuff back while it was being sold at auction or a lot of this could have been prevented. When they chose to look the other way, to me, it made the future issues their own and not anyone else's. I should add, otherwise I agree with you, when things can be proven they were stolen they should be returned.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So JC now has good title because the NYPL was not diligent enough in seeking to recover the card 20 years ago? Because if he doesn't have good title, it ain't his. And if it ain't his, it's still the NYPL's, and he should return it. But he can tell me to F off.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So JC now has good title because the NYPL was not diligent enough in seeking to recover the card 20 years ago? Because if he doesn't have good title, it ain't his. And if it ain't his, it's still the NYPL's, and he should return it. But he can tell me to F off.

I am saying it is my belief, from what I have been told (and reiterated to on a phone call a minute ago) that the NYPL should possibly be held accountable for their gross negligence. I am not a lawyer but I believe a case of equitable estoppel could potentially be made, from reading what that is on Wiki . The NYPL was told what was going on and chose to ignore it.

If I take something from your house and you see me and let me go, can you come back to me 20 yrs later and say you want the item back and be successful?

[Peter_Spaeth]

First of all, JC did not try to justify his keeping the card on the basis of anything that happened 20 years ago. He talked about waiting out the owner, in post 21. "You hope one day they will dearchive or transfer title..." This is a new gloss you are adding.

In any case, in order to have an informed discussion about what happened 20 years ago and its legal effect if any (about which I am skeptical), I would want to know more than the conclusions you are offering. So please post what you know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

PS at a very high level, negligent conduct normally wouldn't give rise to equitable estoppel as I understand it, there has to be some sort of intentional conduct by the party inconsistent with its present claim. Also reliance by the other party is typically required which wouldn't seem to be the case here.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PS at a very high level, negligent conduct normally wouldn't give rise to equitable estoppel as I understand it, there has to be some sort of intentional conduct by the party inconsistent with its present claim. Also reliance by the other party is typically required which wouldn't seem to be the case here.

Maybe this better defines it. "Estoppel by silence or acquiescence: Estoppel that prevents a person from asserting something when he had the right and opportunity to do so earlier, and such silence put another person at a disadvantage."


.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nah, you need INTENT to disadvantage someone for that to apply. And you need a duty to have acted. Since we are in google soundbite land:

Estoppel by silence is also sometimes called estoppel by inaction, estoppel by standing or acquiescence. It is not just staying silent, but doing that with an intention to bring harm to someone.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nah, you need INTENT to disadvantage someone for that to apply. And you need a duty to have acted.

So you are saying, You don't have a duty to act when told you are being stolen from? And then 20+ yrs later it is ok for you to act and disadvantage a third party? Please help me understand that.

OK, I see the intent to harm.....but it is beyond my GED education to argue further.

[Jeffrompa]

My Dad bought tons of stuff from libraries that closed and sold to him and sold to others . Unless that item was reported specifically no way could they come back and ask for it .

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

So you are saying, You don't have a duty to act when told you are being stolen from? And then 20+ yrs later it is ok for you to act and disadvantage a third party? Please help me understand that.

I am saying I don't know enough about the facts of what happened 20 years ago to make a legal assessment, and for now, my presumption is that the NYPL is still the owner and is not estopped to claim ownership. You have stated conclusions. Post the facts, and we'll see where it goes.