Rocky Colavito: Stick it up their ***

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

appeal to authority logical fallacy. FACTS ARE FACTS and your amusing anecdotal, based on nothing, made up bunch of silly nonsense claims only tell us one thing. ex players are generally the worst people to ask about the game.

anyone who would dismiss Ted Williams' frankly AMAZING career because they walked too much and didn't win a ring is so amazingly fucking stupid that their opinion on everything from soup to nuts should be called into question as well as their sanity.

Maybe he thinks Bonds sucked too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nick probably knows this, but I bet there are graphs and charts showing that even the best hitters fall way off in terms of hitting stats on balls outside the strike zone.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, it is my opinion from playing the game most of my life. No one is going to walk every at bat, but I do know that you rarely score a run by walking. It is a poor team concept when your best player is trying to walk instead of driving in runs.

We are never going to agree on this, but to me zero rings is evidence that this walk first approach wins at fantasy baseball, but doesn't produce real championships. It's not like Williams didn't play on some good teams. You can give him a pass, I won't.

Regarding this dismissal of Ted Williams based on his lack of championships, I recall watching an episode of "Sports Reporters" in the late '80s. Dick Schaap was interviewing a group of reporters who covered baseball in the '40s and '50s. I'm sorry, but I can't recall their names. One question that he asked was "Who was better, Dimaggio or Williams?" One of the men replied "You want to know the difference between Dimaggio and Williams? I'll tell you the difference. Lefty Gomez, Red Ruffing, Spud Chandler, Whitey Ford, Allie Reynolds, Eddie Lopat and Vic Raschi."

My point (and the sportswriter's) is that you can't judge a ballplayer's ability solely on championships. Williams was a great hitter, and if the Red Sox didn't have enough pitching to match the Yankees this shouldn't diminish his reputation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

DiMaggio also had Gehrig at the beginning, Berra at the end, and Dickey, Gordon, Keller, Henrich, Rizzuto, and others I am forgetting in between.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Sean

Regarding this dismissal of Ted Williams based on his lack of championships, I recall watching an episode of "Sports Reporters" in the late '80s. Dick Schaap was interviewing a group of reporters who covered baseball in the '40s and '50s. I'm sorry, but I can't recall their names. One question that he asked was "Who was better, Dimaggio or Williams?" One of the men replied "You want to know the difference between Dimaggio and Williams? I'll tell you the difference. Lefty Gomez, Red Ruffing, Spud Chandler, Whitey Ford, Allie Reynolds, Eddie Lopat and Vic Raschi."

My point (and the sportswriter's) is that you can't judge a ballplayer's ability solely on championships. Williams was a great hitter, and if the Red Sox didn't have enough pitching to match the Yankees this shouldn't diminish his reputation.

And, DiMaggio had the advantage of not having to face those pitchers. The only HOF pitcher the Red Sox had during DiMaggio's career was Lefty Grove, who was washed up by the time Williams debuted.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm not sure that's true in basketball where you have five men on the floor at once and all sorts of complex interactive things are going on and a lot of things great players do don't show up in the box score. Baseball, where it's a succession of mano a manos and nearly everything can be measured, for sure.

IDK man, Jordan needed Pippen to win,(and a better supporting cast) Barkley had great playoff numbers and never got one because he either didn't have the supporting cast or was unlucky enough to play that amazing Bulls team.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nick probably knows this, but I bet there are graphs and charts showing that even the best hitters fall way off in terms of hitting stats on balls outside the strike zone.

indeed, unless you are a real freak like Vlad Guerrero (who somehow kept good stats even with a high swing rate on balls out of the zone), a batter should attempt to swing at strikes and not at balls. Better contact, better quality of contact and, .....................wait for it...................... better launch angles and exit velocities!

[packs]

There is a saying in the Dominican: you can't walk off the island. Young hitters there hate walking because it takes away from their ability to showcase their power, which they know is key to playing in America.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

IDK man, Jordan needed Pippen to win,(and a better supporting cast) Barkley had great playoff numbers and never got one because he either didn't have the supporting cast or was unlucky enough to play that amazing Bulls team.

Right I did not mean to imply in basketball even the greatest players can do it alone. My only point and maybe I didn't make it well was that perhaps much more than in baseball great players do things in the flow of a game that may not be readily quantified. So, for example, we can't just look at Russell and say well his stats aren't that great so he must not have been that good.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

There is a saying in the Dominican: you can't walk off the island. Young hitters there hate walking because it takes away from their ability to showcase their power, which they know is key to playing in America.

I wish one of their keys was learning English. Haha.

[packs]

I think it would be just as nice for American born players in Japan to learn Japanese.

[MacDice]

If the number of World Series rings get you into the HOF the. Where is Frank Crosetti?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MacDice

If the number of World Series rings get you into the HOF the. Where is Frank Crosetti?

Or Phil Rizzuto? Oh wait...

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

I think it would be just as nice for American born players in Japan to learn Japanese.

I agree. That's called assimilation.