Why does roger clemens cards still out price Greg maddux?

[Rookiemonster]

Agreed Clemens was awesome I would have expected him to be the same or less the maddux. As far as your maddux being boring idk if anyone here has seen the kris Brant prank with Mad dog. https://www.google.com/amp/mlb.nbcsp...is-bryant/amp/

[Sierra79]

If you're looking at their main brand RC and XRC cards Clemens has the 85 Topps Tiffany and the 84 Fleer Update cards, which are relatively rarer than what maddux has - the more produced 87 Topps Tiffany, 87 Fleer glossy, and no main brand XRC.

Beyond that, if you look at realized prices of their 90's inserts/parallels then most often Maddux is out pricing Clemens. For example, take a look at the sold listing for the 93 Finest Refractors for both players. Most Maddux refractors are selling for more.

Either way, had Clemens not been shrouded with the pedal controversy I think his cards would be through the roof. Both pitchers dominated for different reasons - clemens tossed k's left and right and yes Maddux didn't throw as many k's, as he was a ground ball artist. I completely agree that Clemens time with Boston and the Yanks also gives him a more dedicated fan base although the Braves and Cubs aren't too shabby.


It's kind of crazy to think that three pitchers, Clemens, Johnson, and Maddux combined for 16 CY Awards.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Sierra79

If you're looking at their main brand RC and XRC cards Clemens has the 85 Topps Tiffany and the 84 Fleer Update cards, which are relatively rarer than what maddux has - the more produced 87 Topps Tiffany, 87 Fleer glossy, and no main brand XRC.

Looks like recent sales on eBay have the PSA 10s of the 1984 Fleer Update going for about $600 each, while the BGS 9.5s of the same card are going for $400.

I was under the impression that BGS was more desirable for modern cards while PSA for vintage, although something like this makes me wonder where the line of demarcation is for when that preference changes.

[Davino]

Clemens was a more dramatic pitcher, and he has 7 Cy Youngs, struck out 20 in a game, he was at the very tops of the greatest ever.

[Sierra79]

Originally Posted by Davino

Clemens was a more dramatic pitcher, and he has 7 Cy Youngs, struck out 20 in a game, he was at the very tops of the greatest ever.

100% agree. Both are amongst the best with completely different styles, but Clemens was far more dramatic and had a longer period of 'dramatic' dominance. It also doesn't hurt that he played for the Red Sox and Yankees. PEDS or not, his 7 Cy young awards says a lot.

[darwinbulldog]

If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38

[Davino]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38

Wow, that is very interesting, look how much better Seaver was than Ryan!!

[Sierra79]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38

I am a huge Maddux fan, but there isn't any denying, regardless of the PED shadow, that Clemens is in a league of his own. Statistics aside, Clemens also too pitched in the steroid era against athletes who, whether or not used PEDs, were far more physically developed than players from earlier eras whom he is measured against. When he gets inducted, and he will, high grade examples of his 84 Fleer Update and 85 Topps Tiffany should see a nice bump. I think as the dust settles from the PED scandal people will take a look at him and what he acomplished with a greater sense of appreciation.