True Pre-War Rookie Cards

[RaidonCollects]

Originally Posted by Griffins

How do you not count the Baltimore News for Ruth since it was a minor league issue, but count the T210 for Jax even though it was as well?

I know both the T210 Jackson and Babe Ruth Baltimore News are both minor league cards, but it's a bit complicated, I only consider the Baltimore News to be a "pre-rookie," whilst the T210 Jackson is just a rookie (maybe not even that).

Ruth played with the Baltimore Orioles in 1914, and his "pre-rookie" was issued sometime around that. His M101-4 (and others) were not issued until circa 1916. I consider the true rookie of a player to be their first major league card appearance.

With Jackson it is a bit different. Joe went in between the majors and minors from 1908 until 1910, he played his first full major lg. season in 1911. During this time, Joe played with the Philly Athletics in 1908 and '09. He was traded to the Naps in '10 where his played with the New Orleans Pelicans in the minors and finished the season with the Naps. Joe's E90-1 card pictures him with the Athletics so it must have been issued (or at least the picture is from) in 1909 (E90-1 production didn't start till '09). Jackson is one of the most common cards in the set, leading me to believe that his was issued in most or all of the E90-1 years (1909-11), but ACC didn't both to change his team due to being in and out of the minors. Joe didn't play for the Pelicans (who he is pictured with in T210) until 1910 (also being T210's approx issue date). This leads me to believe that the E90-1 card came before the T210, although his E90-1 production may have run during and past T210 production if Joe was printed in multiple years.

Sorry for writing too much, I probably could have just used a couple sentences,

thanks,

Owen

[h2oya311]

My head is spinning, but I sorta see the logic with this...since I look for the earliest (generally playing years or baseball related) cards/photos of a player, I have a much easier time figuring out "rookie" (or should I say earliest?) issues for negro league players. With all this minor league/major league "pre-rookie" mumbo-jumbo, what do you do there?? Ignore these HOF negro league athletes completely?

Maybe it's just me, but I have a harder time calling a 1949 Bowman card of Satchel Paige a "rookie" when he was 44 years old and had been playing organized/professional baseball since the late 1920s. And how about Josh Gibson or his predecessors who never played a Major League Baseball game?? And don't tell me that Gibson's 1950-51 Toleteros is a rookie either. He had died in 1947, 3-4 years prior to issuance!

[RaidonCollects]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

My head is spinning, but I sorta see the logic with this...since I look for the earliest (generally playing years or baseball related) cards/photos of a player, I have a much easier time figuring out "rookie" (or should I say earliest?) issues for negro league players. With all this minor league/major league "pre-rookie" mumbo-jumbo, what do you do there?? Ignore these HOF negro league athletes completely?

Maybe it's just me, but I have a harder time calling a 1949 Bowman card of Satchel Paige a "rookie" when he was 44 years old and had been playing organized/professional baseball since the late 1920s. And how about Josh Gibson or his predecessors who never played a Major League Baseball game?? And don't tell me that Gibson's 1950-51 Toleteros is a rookie either. He had died in 1947, 3-4 years prior to issuance!

Yeah, it's quite tough when it comes to that. According to Google the definition of a rookie is "a member of a sports team in their first full season." for baseball, you are not considered a rookie until your first major league season (Rookie of the Year etc.). It's tough to determine Negro League players' "rookie cards" because they never (or until the 40's and 50's) were allowed to play in the big leagues. I would consider these players' rookie's to be their first card, no matter the league they were in. Another problem that you mentioned is the lack of Negro League card issues, to my memory there are none or very few that were issued in the US and a tiny number abroad. The problem with Paige is that although he had a few card issues during his career, they were all when he was 40?+ years old, asking the question whether you can still call some of those cards rookie despite them being decades after the start of his career. Just a side note, I believe Josh Gibson had a postcard issue in the 1930's, '31 maybe?

Just my opinion on those cards,

Thanks,

Owen