Helmar Discussion and Debate Here

[bnorth]

As someone who makes custom/art items I like the looks of them. The prices some of them are getting is bat BLEEPING crazy thought. These should be $2-$5 each and $10 at the absolute most. It is not like they are making multi layered new shiny cards that require skill to make.

EDIT: I went on eBay and looked and now see several of them in the $2-$5 range. I believe those to be an excellent value for what they are.

[SAllen2556]

I've always been curious what the licensing rules are for cards like these. Would the estates of these players have any legal claim? And what about the photos they use for the cards? Can anyone just create a vintage looking Babe Ruth card and sell it on eBay....legally?

[GregMitch34]

All good points and fuel or food for thought so keep them coming. However, when you say they don't take much work -- have you ever actually held one? Except for the t206 ones, they are on thick or ultra-thick stock, with many layers, and many of them oversized. Not to mention the "distressed" look and in many cases very, very cool backs. And, for all those those who complain about holdering vs. handling cards--you can really handle these all you want. Whether they appreciate in value is another question--but again, this responds to those who complain that people are only collecting cards these days as an "investment." Where else can you buy a gorgeous "card" of Lou Gehrig as a pitcher at Columbia? And, yes, someone paid $170 for it last night....and probably doesn't care much if it plummets in value.

Then, as someone who displays art and photos around the house--the cabinet cards, at least, are great to display on shelves and mantelpieces, or you can even frame them if you wish. Haven't done that with a little, graded, t206, that's for sure....And you can also buy the original art, signed by the artist, for some of the cards, some of them also 8 X 10 in size.

Finally, there's the scarcity, with only (Charles claims) a half dozen of each card produced per year, if that. True, many may not care, but on the other hand--if you see a card you love and lose out at auction (as I did last night) you DO NOT have a chance to then go buy it at ebay but wait for it to come up again many months down the road. You'll see very, very few great cards at the BIN at ebay now--they are almost all the more mass-produced stamps and early t206 inserts he placed in products he sold a few years back. That can be frustrating--all it boosts the "scarce" appeal.

This would all be heightened if he did a "pop report" for most of the cards. He could even go further and do a VCP type "sales" records, but the pop report itself would add to the appeal, and potential value, if you care, on its own.

As for licensing--a key question. Perhaps Charles can reply here. Probably doesn't matter with vast majority of the players, long deceased, but he is also offering throwback cards for people like Hank Aaron and Willie Mays....

[rats60]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

I've always been curious what the licensing rules are for cards like these. Would the estates of these players have any legal claim? And what about the photos they use for the cards? Can anyone just create a vintage looking Babe Ruth card and sell it on eBay....legally?

He is also using MLB logos. Panini can't use them, I would be curious how he gets away with it.

[MartyFromCANADA]

Lov'em. Great for player collectors. More Gibson's please!

martyfromcanada-t206-helmar_204_front1.jpgmartyfromcanada-t206-helmar_206_front.jpg

[Exhibitman]

My guess is that he straddles the line between permissible art use and commercial products by limiting the print run and hand distressing them.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

My guess is that he straddles the line between permissible art use and commercial products by limiting the print run and hand distressing them.

Maybe it is just me, but if I am buying something of the player that I collect, I would want his family to get the royalties they are due.

[porkchops]

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Several from my collection . Been enjoying Helmar cards since (series 1) snack pack days .
Ken

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

I've always been curious what the licensing rules are for cards like these. Would the estates of these players have any legal claim? And what about the photos they use for the cards? Can anyone just create a vintage looking Babe Ruth card and sell it on eBay....legally?

I do the business for the Walter Johnson estate, and I'd say it's a good bet that these have all been done with no licensing from players, the estates of deceased players, or MLB. If so, it would say so somewhere on the cards. As someone else speculated, it's probably just too small a fish for anyone to go after. The legality of it is another matter altogether, and I can't see how they aren't in violation of trademark and copyright laws. As for the aesthetics, I've always liked the artwork and considered them attractive and nicely done. I have the two Johnson bottlecaps and was hoping they would actually do the beer bottles and six-packs for him as they did with the Babe. And they should definitely have the dates of production on them. We all know, and especially with the ones made to look worn and aged, that many of these will be sold, or attempted to be sold, as vintage cards forever down the road.