Desert Shield Help Please

[whitesoxfan3579]

Fellow community members,

It has been a long time since I posted in this forum. I hope you guys can help me out.

I recently purchased a 1991 Desert Shield Chipper Jones card. I love this parallel set and I agree with what I read on the PSA website about these desert shield cards - "Topps had a great idea and brought a new meaning to the term "Pre-War cards." I am excited to have found a raw copy because most of these cards are graded when they do surface. I made this purchase on the bay and this seller has also listed many other desert shield cards for sale. Also, he appears to own a memorabilia shop in the south and his feedback on ebay is impeccable.

I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of this card, however I know there are a lot of risks involved in purchasing a raw high end card and I want to ensure I am not overlooking anything.

Right off the bat the logo has a rounded bottom as you can clearly see. Also, the tip of the lowest leaf is right in between the letters "R" and "A." I actually just ordered a UV flashlight so I can make certain that the back of the card fluoresces after hitting it with black light. I do not know if it worth purchasing a loupe that I may not use much to determine if I can see a clear row of stars in the flag.

Please check out the scans below of the card and let me know what you think. Do you think this card is authentic? Is there anything else I should consider as well?





Thank you in advance.

[Zach Wheat]

Can you give a better scan of the shield? It is hard to make out any detail in the pics...

Z

[58pinson]

With the understood proviso that I'am the furthest thing from an authenticity judge, I went to my PC and pulled my raw copy of this card. It, and a Tony Gwynn were given to me by a work buddy's son who was in the military at that time, although not deployed overseas. Your card looks like a dead ringer for mine. The only slight difference I see is on my copy the vertical red line on the right side of the card is mostly visible as it runs under the shield banner, while on yours I cannot see the line. This could be a function of the photo. As Zach Wheat has said a better look at the shield would be helpful. I would wager your card is legit.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Looks good to me. I would be worried if the card said 'Larry Jones'

[ALR-bishop]

I have a set that I am happy with but if I were looking for advice on it I would go to Zach above

[JustinD]

Definitely looks good to me.

I think the condition issues are the reason it was not graded. I would leave it that way as it is better with modern in my mind to leave raw than have a mid-grade if you ever wanted to part with it.

[whitesoxfan3579]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Can you give a better scan of the shield? It is hard to make out any detail in the pics...

Z

sure, thank you for asking. The file size is too large so I do not think I can attach the high res (2400 DPI) JPEG that I just scanned, however I uploaded this to photobucket (like I did previously with the 300 DPI JPEG) and I am copying and pasting the link/image of the high res JPEG directly below:



Thank you in advance.

[whitesoxfan3579]

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide your analysis. I scanned the card again (this time with 2400 DPI instead of 300). My understanding is the shield should look the same for each player's card however there may be slight variations in the shield when comparing different players from the same parallel set.

Originally Posted by 58pinson

With the understood proviso that I'am the furthest thing from an authenticity judge, I went to my PC and pulled my raw copy of this card. It, and a Tony Gwynn were given to me by a work buddy's son who was in the military at that time, although not deployed overseas. Your card looks like a dead ringer for mine. The only slight difference I see is on my copy the vertical red line on the right side of the card is mostly visible as it runs under the shield banner, while on yours I cannot see the line. This could be a function of the photo. As Zach Wheat has said a better look at the shield would be helpful. I would wager your card is legit.

lol, thank you. I certainly would not have pulled the trigger if that was the case.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Looks good to me. I would be worried if the card said 'Larry Jones'

thank you.

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have a set that I am happy with but if I were looking for advice on it I would go to Zach above

I appreciate it. Yes, I would not get it graded, which is how I typically prefer my cards, although I understand at times it makes sense to buy graded. The seller described the card as NM and did not provide a great picture. I understand it's probably exmint at best. Your advice makes sense, thank you.

Originally Posted by JustinD

Definitely looks good to me.

I think the condition issues are the reason it was not graded. I would leave it that way as it is better with modern in my mind to leave raw than have a mid-grade if you ever wanted to part with it.

[bobsbbcards]

Here's one I sold last year for comparison.

[bobsbbcards]

....and a closeup of the logo on the Ryan:

[whitesoxfan3579]

Wow, I think your scanner is better than mine. Did you use photobucket to upload the scan to the forum? After reviewing your scans and taking into account the other posts so far, I am certainly feeling more confident that the DS Chipper I purchased is legit. I look forward to seeing what Zach (and any others) may have to add. I appreciate your time as well.

Originally Posted by bobsbbcards

Here's one I sold last year for comparison.

Originally Posted by bobsbbcards

....and a closeup of the logo on the Ryan:

[whitesoxfan3579]

and for the shield itself:

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Can you give a better scan of the shield? It is hard to make out any detail in the pics...

Z

[savedfrommyspokes]

The area where the palm leaves meet the tree has always been a good indicator for me as to the legitimacy of a DS card....this one matches up to any of the legit copies I have ever handled. The counterfeits I have seen, the areas inside the red circles I added to your image are filled in. In the image you provided, these areas are clearly NOT filled in.

[Zach Wheat]

WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate (Legit logo has palm leaf pointing between the "R & A" unlike the fake logo in the illustration below where it points between the "E" & "R"). The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate. The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z

Mr Wheat if you ever want to get rid of that counterfeit card I would be interested.

[Zach Wheat]

Aaaah you recognized it was a card of Boggs.....your favorite player. It's yours the next time I get it out of storage....


Z

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Aaaah you recognized it was a card of Boggs.....your favorite player. It's yours the next time I get it out of storage....


Z

Yep you can't hide a Boggs card from me my friend.

[whitesoxfan3579]

This is good to know. I appreciate the level of detail you provided. Thank you.

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

The area where the palm leaves meet the tree has always been a good indicator for me as to the legitimacy of a DS card....this one matches up to any of the legit copies I have ever handled. The counterfeits I have seen, the areas inside the red circles I added to your image are filled in. In the image you provided, these areas are clearly NOT filled in.

[whitesoxfan3579]

You really know your stuff, I appreciate it. I feel really good that the card is legit. The Boggs DS logo you uploaded is a great example and I will be certain to refer back to this thread, should I make future DS card purchases (at this time I only have Frank Thomas and Chipper Jones). I was supposed to receive the long wave black light that I previously ordered yesterday, but that is certainly not as important now.

Thank you for your help.

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate (Legit logo has palm leaf pointing between the "R & A" unlike the fake logo in the illustration below where it points between the "E" & "R"). The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate (Legit logo has palm leaf pointing between the "R & A" unlike the fake logo in the illustration below where it points between the "E" & "R"). The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z

first off, your knowledge of DS is very impressive. have been reading up on it the last few days. picked up a couple of DS cards this week myself. i had read in a few places where people say stud finders work on these packs - i tried that with the actual cards and didn't have success. the best method you think would be UV light to determine florescence? appreciate the insight.

[ALR-bishop]

I think Zach uses a nail gun rather than a stud finder.

Agree he is a great resource on DS

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I think Zach uses a nail gun rather than a stud finder.

Agree he is a great resource on DS

i bought one of these DS packs recently, just got it today. i'm not an expert by any stretch on packaging, but i didn't notice anything overly suspicious about the seal. opened up the pack, they all looked to be legit desert shield cards. but i did get 15 total common cards, which raised my eyebrow a bit. suppose it's not impossible to get 15 low end cards in any single pack, but i'm admittedly curious/slightly dubious.

[swarmee]

Remember back then there were 800 cards in the base set. So not getting a star in 15 cards is actually pretty normal.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

i bought one of these DS packs recently, just got it today. i'm not an expert by any stretch on packaging, but i didn't notice anything overly suspicious about the seal. opened up the pack, they all looked to be legit desert shield cards. but i did get 15 total common cards, which raised my eyebrow a bit. suppose it's not impossible to get 15 low end cards in any single pack, but i'm admittedly curious/slightly dubious.

Post some pics of the DS foil logo. It is rare but people did make fake DS packs. I know a guy a couple years ago that opened several packs and they were all fakes. Not saying yours are just saying it has happened.

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Post some pics of the DS foil logo. It is rare but people did make fake DS packs. I know a guy a couple years ago that opened several packs and they were all fakes. Not saying yours are just saying it has happened.

when i get a chance later this week i will post (if i can figure it out )

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Remember back then there were 800 cards in the base set. So not getting a star in 15 cards is actually pretty normal.

fair point. that's the one thing i thought about as well. it's not abnormal - per se - just curious.