Brent Huigens - PWCC. Do you really want to keep this game up? I'm ready boss.

[vintagetoppsguy]

PSA does not require a card to be in their possession before removing it from the pop report. I remember several years ago, there was a thread on the CU message boards about a '66 Killebrew that was graded a 10, but looked like a 5. Most agreed it was a mechanical error. PSA contacted the eBay seller to try and get the card back, the seller refused to cooperate. PSA removed the card from the registry. It does happen.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

PSA does not require a card to be in their possession before removing it from the pop report. I remember several years ago, there was a thread on the CU message boards about a '66 Killebrew that was graded a 10, but looked like a 5. Most agreed it was a mechanical error. PSA contacted the eBay seller to try and get the card back, the seller refused to cooperate. PSA removed the card from the registry. It does happen.

This is a 50k card. And we arent getting the whole story imo.

[Whodunit]

If PSA doesnt require that a graded item be in their possession, or evidence of destruction, etc, why is the Wagner still in the pop when everybody knows it is altered as well?......and, yes, i realize this question was raised earlier today, but I dont think it was ever answered directly. This was also a topic of discussion for me today with other fellow hobbyists (while I couldnt post).

[Whodunit]

Peter,

IMO, we'll never know the whole story.....especially the part about who won it at auction with Brent and where it is today, unless John takes him to court. If that happens, I truly want to have my testimony subpoenaed. I simply keep finding out more and more bc I refuse to let it die after how matters were handled. This is obviously personal to me; not bc of the money, but bc someone I trusted lied to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The big song and dance during the auction about psa reviewing it and blessing it, then after the auction for no apparent reason they pull a 180 and deregister it while leaving the card out there? Cmon. It doesnt add up. Bs meter on high but then again nothing new there.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The big song and dance during the auction about psa reviewing it and blessing it, then after the auction for no apparent reason they pull a 180 and deregister it while leaving the card out there? Cmon. It doesnt add up. Bs meter on high but then again nothing new there.

Im absolutely not buying that argument! I never believed it while they were saying it was at PSA during the auction, and I dang sure dont think PSA blessed it after the obvious alterations were revealed. Now, theyre discussing it with somebody who doesnt even own or possess the card? Behind the new owners back? Yeah, BS meter going lunar on that one.

[ngnichols]

It all boils down to if there is a buck to be made, someone, somewhere will engage in fraud to make money.

This is not exclusive to the card hobby and it's pretty sad to see. These are the reasons why people just completely get out of the hobby and/or don't trust certain companies/graders/consignors/people because they act in an unprofessional and unscrupulous way just to make a couple of bucks.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Im absolutely not buying that argument! I never believed it while they were saying it was at PSA during the auction, and I dang sure dont think PSA blessed it after the obvious alterations were revealed. Now, theyre discussing it with somebody who doesnt even own or possess the card? Behind the new owners back? Yeah, BS meter going lunar on that one.

As much as I want to not believe a word you are saying because of how ambiguous you are being, I believe you are pissed, and believe you have SOMETHING to back up what you are claiming, but at the same time I do NOT believe you are ENTIRELY innocent and that there are problems on both side of the fence.

Let's be honest, you popped out of the wood work. Has anyone here met you in person ever?

Both you and him have benefited from your relationship, both of you only say what is required to get each other to budge/move on an issue to resolve your own problems. To me this bull shit middle ground sounds like you are in cahoots and only playing chess against each other in the public forum to see who chickens first.

Spill the guts GUY, or Shut the F*** Up.

Side note. I once supported you, but you are losing that by saying stupid SH1T.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Peter,

IMO, we'll never know the whole story.....especially the part about who won it at auction with Brent and where it is today, unless John takes him to court. If that happens, I truly want to have my testimony subpoenaed. I simply keep finding out more and more bc I refuse to let it die after how matters were handled. This is obviously personal to me; not bc of the money, but bc someone I trusted lied to me.

You are so full of shit. No offense. You have the option of free speech, which you can post right here, right now. You can chose to leave out the parts that incriminate you, unless that is 100 percent of what you have to say.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

PSA does not require a card to be in their possession before removing it from the pop report. I remember several years ago, there was a thread on the CU message boards about a '66 Killebrew that was graded a 10, but looked like a 5. Most agreed it was a mechanical error. PSA contacted the eBay seller to try and get the card back, the seller refused to cooperate. PSA removed the card from the registry. It does happen.

Several years ago, may not be how it works today. This comes from a lawyer representing the guy with the PSA 6 Green Cobb. There is an outside chance it is a complete fabricated lie, but there was enough contact I do believe some of it. Leaning towards it being truthful.

He said he has a lawyer, the lawyer was handling communication, and went into extreme detail about how they handle it, what they do legally, why and what your options are based on a huge variety of factors based on the review they do having the card in slab, in hand.

Most of it makes/made sense, and it was hard to deny he sounded like he knew what he was talking about, without actually going threw it myself.

I will say, correct though, it is their database, and they can do what they want with it, but at the same time by doing so they open themselves up to new risks that may not be covered by their standard insurance, etc.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Several years ago, may not be how it works today. This comes from a lawyer representing the guy with the PSA 6 Green Cobb. There is an outside chance it is a complete fabricated lie, but there was enough contact I do believe some of it. Leaning towards it being truthful.

He said he has a lawyer, the lawyer was handling communication, and went into extreme detail about how they handle it, what they do legally, why and what your options are based on a huge variety of factors based on the review they do having the card in slab, in hand.

Most of it makes/made sense, and it was hard to deny he sounded like he knew what he was talking about, without actually going threw it myself.

I will say, correct though, it is their database, and they can do what they want with it, but at the same time by doing so they open themselves up to new risks that may not be covered by their standard insurance, etc.

Are you referring to the scammer that bought the Green Cobb as a novelty item and then got caught trying to sell it as real? I believe his ebay ID has realtopps in it. That person has been caught doing several shady things and I would not trust anything they(man/wife) said.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Are you referring to the scammer that bought the Green Cobb as a novelty item and then got caught trying to sell it as real? I believe his ebay ID has realtopps in it. That person has been caught doing several shady things and I would not trust anything they(man/wife) said.

Hey Ben, the guy you're referring to goes by Toppsaholic on eBay. On Net54 he calls himself Realtoppsaholic.

[PhillipAbbott79]

I am curious to know what can be obtained via general inquiry by calling PSA and inquiring about the cert and the cards history.

[Brent Huigens]

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

None of this done to explain anything other than why we will see the card again soon in another upcoming PWCC auction (likely with another grade).

"PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client." No idea what that means. PWCC purchases a card from REA for Client 1 and then submits the card, and gets it regraded, and then resells the card on behalf of Client 2? Huh? Well who soaked the card? And how did the card get from one PWCC client to another. All smells terrible to me.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

Brent sold me the card after National on '15 after it was shopped around by multiple big names in this hobby. When it didnt sell for the asking price at National, Brent approached me with the deal that we made. I will directly dispute the fact that they say that Brent never owned the card. His words to me were that it was his and that he thought it would fit well in my collection EVEN THOUGH HE HATED TO LET IT GO.....key phrase "the card is mine and ill let you have it for 75k, but please keep the sale quiet."

Brent, i have all the facts from the purchase. You won it, you had it doctored and you sold it to me stating that IT WAS YOUR CARD. I dont delete 75k documentation, texts, emails, accounting, etc. I think ive proved that via another thread regarding this card. Would you like to see the messages from Betsy while you were on a few of your biweekly vacations......when she said you went fishing with your dad? Those messages are interesting.

It is exactly for times like this that I let people draw their own conclusions about me. Apparently you thought that a backwoods AL redneck wouldnt keep records.

How many times did i have to correct your evaluation of my account when i was consigning over 250k/mo with you? Of those times, how many times was your math off to the point that i had to tell you that according to my records, I OWED YOU more than you accounted for. Did you never pick up on how deep my records go when i took every month to the penny?

I still have about 3 yrs of spreadsheets and a nice little text where i won a jordan 10, the holder was tampered with and you asked that i return it to you. You refunded my money, but didnt tell me for over a yr that the card wasnt actually the card psa graded.....that someone had pulled the 10 and inserted a 9. Im sure you try to keep as much of that stuff as quiet as you can as well.

Try again.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

The purpose of this post is to share with the group the final status of the '36 DiMaggio card.

While I realize there will always be skeptics, here are the facts. We will not address this issue again after this post.

1) PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client. Though we have and always will maintain the confidentiality of our clients, ultimately, we have learned a valuable lesson in keeping an appropriate distance between ourselves and our clients especially around purchasing cards on their behalf.

2) While the auction was live, and when the concerns over restoration were raised by this board, we overnighted the card to Joe Orlando of PSA who had his team verify that the grade of 7 was accurate. This was done through submission number 5751226 and it was received by PSA on 2/7/2017.

3) The card was purchased by a very legitimate buyer based in the Southeastern US. The purchase was paid for promptly, and our team shipped the card to the buyer just like any other purchase. Stating that the sale was illegitimate is incorrect.

4) After the card was sold, PSA reached out to PWCC to express their interest in reconsidering their assessment of the card. After deliberation with PWCC, PSA decided that they wanted to remove the item from the registry. This decision was made while the card was still in the possession of the buyer. According to PSA, this is standard policy to address cards in circulation they no longer wish to recognize.

5) Following PSA's decision to remove the item from the registry, PWCC has been in communication with the buyer and made it clear that we would accept a return of the card for a full refund.

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

huh???

Every post you make seems to make your position weaker. Eventually you will understand that most people aren't stupid.

Are you shaking a magic eightball before you make a response?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

6) Last evening the buyer decided to return the card. When PWCC receives the return, we will refund the buyer's payment. Because PWCC was the entity that got the card graded (albeit on behalf of a client), PWCC is shouldering the costs of the loss.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC

I know you said this was the last post on the thread, but there are still real questions to be asked/answered. Here is mine: will the card now be returned to PSA under their insurance policy and bought back down to the original price/grade range and then either cracked or reholdered? If the card is still out there as a slabbed PSA 7, then it's still a problem. And theoretically, if PSA is liable for the incorrect grading, you could recoup 90% of your costs by busting it down to a PSA Authentic or mid-grade and taking the difference in a check from PSA.

[pencil1974]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hey Ben, the guy you're referring to goes by Toppsaholic on eBay. On Net54 he calls himself Realtoppsaholic.

Yeah, I actually sold him that Green Cobb, told him it wasn't right, but he didn't care at the time he said because I think he thought he had a fish on the hook. Then a month later he wanted to give it back because it wasn't legit. He sent me emails that said I don't care if its not legit my wife and I just love cards. So I helped him and his wife part with $1500 as I really didn't think he would be dumb enough to do it. Guess I was wrong and now I giggle a little every time he complains.

Does that make me an ass, sure it does. Do I care, no I don't because some times the bully gets punched in the face. But he threatens every few days to beat me up, blackmail me some how, etc. etc.. I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not. Sorry if you don't want to deal with me moving forward, I understand and thats anyone's choice.

[Snapolit1]

Biggest card in their auction currently is a Michael Jordan card. Leading bidder has made 20 bids in 6 months and only retracted 4 of them. This might actually be progress!

[Exhibitman]

"PWCC never owned the card. It was purchased from REA on behalf of a client and graded and sold on behalf of another client."

This is a very cleverly phrased denial that could be literally true but is telling in what is left out.

Courtney confirmed this sequence of events in the prior thread:

Spring 2015: Sold in REA as an SGC 50 for $6600 to Brent
August 2015: Sold privately by Brent to Courtney as a PSA 7 for $75k
Oct 2016: Consigned by Courtney to Goldin and won by John Perez for $46,800
Feb 2017: Consigned by John to Brent and sold to unknown buyer for $52,300

Now assuming that the quoted statement by PWCC is true, i.e., that PWCC purchased the card from REA for a client and had the card graded and then sold it for another client, it leaves the mysterious clients as the culprits. And of course probity (though not any privilege or legal requirement) prevents PWCC from naming the clients. See, but I suspect that PWCC's client was the ownership of PWCC and that this whole endeavor was a carefully structured effort to make PWCC a cut-out between yourselves and the card so that PWCC could plausibly deny ownership and blame everything on mystery clients who bought an SGC card under PWCC auspices and just a few months later brought a raw card for PWCC to submit and sell. So, Betsy, just to make things crystal clear please confirm unequivocally that no one who had an ownership in PWCC at the time were the PWCC clients you reference. You need not break your fake confidentiality to do so as I am not asking for a name, just a confirmation that the PWCC ownership isn't the mystery client.

But before you respond please ask your attorney to brief you on the concept of a "declaration against interest"; may be useful information to have before answering.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

Yeah, I actually sold him that Green Cobb, told him it wasn't right, but he didn't care at the time he said because I think he thought he had a fish on the hook. Then a month later he wanted to give it back because it wasn't legit. He sent me emails that said I don't care if its not legit my wife and I just love cards. So I helped him and his wife part with $1500 as I really didn't think he would be dumb enough to do it. Guess I was wrong and now I giggle a little every time he complains.

Does that make me an ass, sure it does. Do I care, no I don't because some times the bully gets punched in the face. But he threatens every few days to beat me up, blackmail me some how, etc. etc.. I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not. Sorry if you don't want to deal with me moving forward, I understand and thats anyone's choice.

I would love to see a screen shot of those emails, because I have heard the exact opposite. He said that the person who sold it to him, didn't tell him it was fake, and he paid a lot of money for it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I would love to see a screen shot of those emails, because I have heard the exact opposite. He said that the person who sold it to him, didn't tell him it was fake, and he paid a lot of money for it.

Yes I thats what I thought as well..

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

Yeah, I actually sold him that Green Cobb, told him it wasn't right, but he didn't care at the time he said because I think he thought he had a fish on the hook. Then a month later he wanted to give it back because it wasn't legit. He sent me emails that said I don't care if its not legit my wife and I just love cards. So I helped him and his wife part with $1500 as I really didn't think he would be dumb enough to do it. Guess I was wrong and now I giggle a little every time he complains.

Does that make me an ass, sure it does. Do I care, no I don't because some times the bully gets punched in the face. But he threatens every few days to beat me up, blackmail me some how, etc. etc.. I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not. Sorry if you don't want to deal with me moving forward, I understand and thats anyone's choice.

He sent me several of those threatening messages also. I called him out on that Cobb and a few other scams he was trying to pull. He is known for knowingly buying bad items and trying to sell them as good. Very similar to Battlefield but without the photoshopping.

He quit messaging/threatening me after he bought a trimmed T206 and was trying to sell it as good. Guess he could no longer claim innocence after I sent him links to the auction listing that he bought it from that clearly listed it as trimmed.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by pencil1974

I have to say I don't like screwing anyone over but man Toppsaholic was the one person I didn't care if I screwed over or not.

Originally Posted by orly57

Brad Pencil's reputation really should not and cannot be questioned.

Somehow these two things don't seem to agree with each other.