Legit Auto COA companies

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I wonder if the initial one was an Auction House LOA

Original LOA was from Spence....

Rectangular cut, boldly signed by*Babe Ruth in black fountain pen (grading "10"). Encapsulated by Beckett, with the signature certified as "Authentic." This is an exceptional Ruth cut and one that would be perfect for creating a framed photo display. The cut (5 x 2.25 inches) displays a heavy horizontal fold below Ruth's signature, as well as a few light creases. In Very Good condition overall.Please Note: This piece originally appeared in REA's 2009 auction, at which time it was accompanied by a letter of authenticity from James Spence/JSA. During the authentication process for this auction, JSA declined to provide a new LOA on the cut, as did PSA/DNA. Autograph authentication is not an exact science, and opinions on authenticity can change sometimes. We are presenting this piece as is with this important disclosure.*

[Stampsfan]

JSA is either smarter now than before, or dumber now than before, depending on one's perspective.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

JSA is either smarter now than before, or dumber now than before, depending on one's perspective.

According to the JSA website:
Certification and authentication involves an individual judgment that is subjective and requires the exercise of professional opinion, which can change from time to time. Therefore, JSA makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer for the opinion rendered by JSA on any submission.

And on the back of the Beckett Authentication submission form:
3. Certification and authentication involves an individual judgement that is subjective and requires the exercise of professional opinion, which can change
from time to time. Therefore, Beckett Authentication Services makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer
for the opinion rendered on any submission.

They must've had the same lawyer reviewing their docs...

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

...and requires the exercise of professional opinion, which can change from time to time.

Thanks for this.

Wowza... I must be married to a Professional Authenticator, because she constantly changes her opinion.

[ruth-gehrig]

What does she charge for her "opinion"?

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

What does she charge for her "opinion"?

Eventually... half of everything.

[Leon]

All it needs to say is they have carte blanche...

Originally Posted by T206Collector

According to the JSA website:
Certification and authentication involves an individual judgment that is subjective and requires the exercise of professional opinion, which can change from time to time. Therefore, JSA makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer for the opinion rendered by JSA on any submission.

And on the back of the Beckett Authentication submission form:
3. Certification and authentication involves an individual judgement that is subjective and requires the exercise of professional opinion, which can change
from time to time. Therefore, Beckett Authentication Services makes no warranty or representation and shall have no liability whatsoever to the customer
for the opinion rendered on any submission.

They must've had the same lawyer reviewing their docs...

[Rich Klein]

Considering for several years JSA and Beckett had a working arrangement, there is nothing surprising about the same verbiage.

Rich

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Original LOA was from Spence....

Spence Auction House LOA vs. a Full Spence LOA, is what I meant. I've been burned by the PSA/DNA Auction House LOA before...

But you're right -- the description in the auction suggests it was a Full LOA.

[Orioles1954]

Our auction house accepts PSA/DNA, JSA, SGC Authentic, UDA, Steiner, Mounted Memories plus player specific holograms like Ted Williams, Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken Jr., Derek Jeter, etc. There might be a few that I forgot.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Spence Auction House LOA vs. a Full Spence LOA, is what I meant. I've been burned by the PSA/DNA Auction House LOA before...

But you're right -- the description in the auction suggests it was a Full LOA.

I've never been a big autograph collector and so, didn't ever pay much attention to or think much about LOAs. Probably a dumb question then but, what exactly is the difference between an auction house LOA and a full LOA? They both claim to only be an "opinion"so they can potentially escape liability issues, or so it seems.

To me it makes little sense to have varying degrees of such opinions out there. Again, without really knowing, I assume the costs for getting an auction house LOA are less than for a full LOA but, if the certainty of the authenticity can also then vary depending on which type of LOA you get, why would anyone in their right mind accept anything other than a full LOA?

BobC

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by BobC

Why would anyone in their right mind accept anything other than a full LOA?

Totally agree with this. The problem primarily is with large lots of signed cards at auction. Take this lot in the current REA, for example:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=44903

Note the bottom of the description:
Total: 103 cards (69 signed). Auction LOA from James Spence/JSA. Pre certified by Steve Grad and Brian Sobrero/Beckett Authentication. Reserve $300. Estimate $1,000++.

To understand what this means, you need to read the fine print in pararaphs 17 and 18 of the catalog rules/disclaimers. But, basically, a "pre-cert" and an "Auction LOA" will mean different things about warranties and liabilities to those two companies.

According to JSA's website:
James Spence Authentication, LLC (JSA) offers several different forms of authenticity which includes a service specifically designed for approved auction houses. These Auction House Letters of Authenticity (LOA) are exclusively created to accommodate national auction houses keeping in mind the large volume of signature material presented in a specific catalogue. The winning bidders receive our Auction House LOA on our proprietary watermarked paper containing the lot number, item(s) description (per the auction house) and date of the offering.
These generic LOAs differ from our premium documents in as much as they are preliminary reviews of the items and do not go through the rigors our full examination process. Unlike the premium JSA LOA, the Auction House versions do not contain the live notarized signature of James Spence, a high resolution digital scan of the signature(s), certification number and sequential sticker, nor our own specific description of the offered lot. The text provided by the auction house is solely their verbiage.
If the winning auction bidder elects to have the LOA upgraded to our premium service, JSA charges a $50 upgrade fee per individual item. This service is recommended by JSA and will ensure the highest level of our opined expertise. In the rare event that our opinion differs from our original consultation with the auction house, no upgrade fee will be charged. Only original auction house JSA LOAs are accepted for our upgraded service. Photocopies are not accepted. It is important to for all of our customers to fully understand the differences in our products to avoid any misconceptions or confusion. Please note all JSA Auction Letters of Authenticity are not eligible for the $50 upgrade fee after 45 days from the auction's end date listed on the JSA ALOA.

Where I think you will run into the most trouble is where you buy a signed item from a winning bidder several years after the original auction, and the winning bidder now seller is relying on the initial Auction LOA. It will be very hard to get a refund from the authenticator at that point. I recently purchased on eBay a $400 card with an Auction LOA (Hunt) from PSA/DNA from over 10 years ago. When I tried to get it fully authenticated it failed. PSA/DNA basically gave me store credit for the item -- $400 in grading vouchers. I was okay with that, under the circumstances, but it is still frustrating.

[tazdmb]

What are people's thoughts with Beckett entering the mix now that Steve Grad has jumped on board? I see quite a few auctions houses, including REA starting to jump on board.

[Kco]

Beckett has assembled a solid group of knowledgeable authenticators, it seems, and I'd be pretty comfortable with authenticity from them on most sports items. I Still like PSA and JSA more on vintage and bigger name sports stars, but Beckett is ok in my book, though I'd like to see more of a track record over the next few years and see if any major blunders occur.

Additonally, I trust NONE of them on new Hollywood or celebrity autos as the autos themselves are a joke and authenticating a squiggly line, to me, isn't possible.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Original LOA was from Spence....

Rectangular cut, boldly signed by*Babe Ruth in black fountain pen (grading "10"). Encapsulated by Beckett, with the signature certified as "Authentic." This is an exceptional Ruth cut and one that would be perfect for creating a framed photo display. The cut (5 x 2.25 inches) displays a heavy horizontal fold below Ruth's signature, as well as a few light creases. In Very Good condition overall.Please Note: This piece originally appeared in REA's 2009 auction, at which time it was accompanied by a letter of authenticity from James Spence/JSA. During the authentication process for this auction, JSA declined to provide a new LOA on the cut, as did PSA/DNA. Autograph authentication is not an exact science, and opinions on authenticity can change sometimes. We are presenting this piece as is with this important disclosure.*

Therein lies the problem. Even the best experts can at times be fooled.