Where are you Jason May...

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I believe there is a reasoable time frame for inspection. Money gets allocatedto different things. Refund is not always possible even. There is no infinite time period for returns from honest sellers. That is ridiculous.



If you have concerns dont buy. If you buy get the item inspected and if its bad return it within a normal time frame.



Even credit cards will not let you dispute something after 6 months. I believe that to be a good guage on where to draw the line...but even that is really long to float a seller. In private transactions it should be 2 to 3 months. That is more than enough to get something graded or get other opinions.



No offense but that is what you get for sitting on things. Chaulk it up and stop doing business with him.

Really? That is what I get? So, because I trust a seller whom I thought was a close hobby friend and trusted his word I get what I deserve? I deserve to be out $3k? Because he blatantly lied to me, which I have attached images, yet you feel like I deserve this? Are you kidding me? There were no red flags with Jason prior to this. I didn't NEED to send them in to get authenticated because I trusted him. All we have is our word, right?

And BTW, I offer lifetime guarantees with ALL of my items if an autograph is proven to be bad. I have refunded a seller after a year no questions asked. There is no fine line limit like with a credit card.

[Bruinsfan94]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Really? That is what I get? So, because I trust a seller whom I thought was a close hobby friend and trusted his word I get what I deserve? I deserve to be out $3k? Because he blatantly lied to me, which I have attached images, yet you feel like I deserve this? Are you kidding me? There were no red flags with Jason prior to this. I didn't NEED to send them in to get authenticated because I trusted him. All we have is our word, right?

And BTW, I offer lifetime guarantees with ALL of my items if an autograph is proven to be bad. I have refunded a seller after a year no questions asked. There is no fine line limit like with a credit card.

Well the fact of the matter is that this guy told everyone that he would refund him the money, but now won't because I guess he feels slighted? That is extremely unethical.

[OldSchoolBaseball]

I agree that it's completely unreasonable to expect a refund after that amount of time. For authentication - 60 days max is acceptable for getting a response back and communicating to the seller.

Personally, I think the autos are good - PSA and other authentication companies sometimes just don't know, so they error on the side of "not authentic" but they get it wrong too.

I have an autograph signed at a dinner from a HOF'er, and since he was drunk off his ass, the auto is terrible and would never pass authentication.

I say sorry, learn from it and move on

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by OldSchoolBaseball

I agree that it's completely unreasonable to expect a refund after that amount of time. For authentication - 60 days max is acceptable for getting a response back and communicating to the seller.

Personally, I think the autos are good - PSA and other authentication companies sometimes just don't know, so they error on the side of "not authentic" but they get it wrong too.

I have an autograph signed at a dinner from a HOF'er, and since he was drunk off his ass, the auto is terrible and would never pass authentication.

I say sorry, learn from it and move on

JSA took 12 weeks to get me a decision


What say you?

[TheNightmanCometh]

As someone who sells cards from time to time. If I found that I sold a card that wasn't what I claimed it to be, there'd be no question that I would refund the money. The only thing we have in this business is our name and that is built on being ethical. If it's 1 day or 1 year or 10 years, if I sold something fraudulent, unbeknownst to me, I'd do what is right and refund the buyer's money.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

As someone who sells cards from time to time. If I found that I sold a card that wasn't what I claimed it to be, there'd be no question that I would refund the money. The only thing we have in this business is our name and that is built on being ethical. If it's 1 day or 1 year or 10 years, if I sold something fraudulent, unbeknownst to me, I'd do what is right and refund the buyer's money.

+1. I took a signed Berra back I had signed through his foundation which had failed psa. It doesnt matter if an auto good or not, as long as it passes. Hence why I've used Richard Simon on authographs I need decisions and opinions on quickly. He's seen more fakes than most of the authenticators, and can at least explain why or why not items are questionable. At that point leaving it up to the buyer to decide.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

As someone who sells cards from time to time. If I found that I sold a card that wasn't what I claimed it to be, there'd be no question that I would refund the money. The only thing we have in this business is our name and that is built on being ethical. If it's 1 day or 1 year or 10 years, if I sold something fraudulent, unbeknownst to me, I'd do what is right and refund the buyer's money.

Couldn't agree more and I have refunded items before, no questions asked after a year.

BTW, love your name, one of my favorite episodes

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

As someone who sells cards from time to time. If I found that I sold a card that wasn't what I claimed it to be, there'd be no question that I would refund the money. The only thing we have in this business is our name and that is built on being ethical. If it's 1 day or 1 year or 10 years, if I sold something fraudulent, unbeknownst to me, I'd do what is right and refund the buyer's money.

Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that a seller should accommodate. Waiting 1, 2 3 or more years to send it away then asking for a refund is not one of the. Waiting and proving the time frame is out of your hands due to mailing or other factors is much more understandable.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that a seller should accommodate. Waiting 1, 2 3 or more years to send it away then asking for a refund is not one of the. Waiting and proving the time frame is out of your hands due to mailing or other factors is much more understandable.

True, to an extent. But this is largely opinionated as others, including myself, have said that we have refunded an item that sold over a year ago.

[Duluth Eskimo]

What many people seem to be missing is that what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. No matter the time limit. I have bought and sold autographs along with other memorabilia for over 30 years and have never left someone hanging if an issue like this pops up. These issues come up and as a seller, you are representing something as authentic when it is sold. Even if I don't agree with what PSA or JSA say, I would still refund their money or make it right.

On a side note, and hopefully I am not speaking out of turn, at this same show Brent attended I was speaking with a friend and colleague in the autograph business. He informed me that he recently had an item fail authentication that was sold by Jim Stinson many many years ago, but still had the invoice that he kept with all of his personal collection. He contacted Jim and without hesitation, Jim issued him a full refund, fully explained the situation that led to how he picked up the item, and took responsibility for the situation. A highly commendable move on his part that I thought was worth sharing.

In the end, I think making the deal right is what's right. It will be hard given the words exchanged, but I think taking responsibility is the right thing to do.

[autograf]

Tough situation. Like most here, I think the time to return should be something less than 2-3 years. If most all your cards were graded or with letters, I can't understand why these cards would sit in your collection for years before you decide to authenticate them. For those kind of dollars, I would want as immediate confirmation as possible. Not sure there's a good solution. Maybe splitting the cost down the middle. Then you'll still have two pissed off people.

And I really don't like that Simmons........the Fabers look pretty good though. There's the rub with buying raw autographs. They might all be fake, but with a letter or encapsulated, most people aren't gonna question them at that point.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that a seller should accommodate. Waiting 1, 2 3 or more years to send it away then asking for a refund is not one of the. Waiting and proving the time frame is out of your hands due to mailing or other factors is much more understandable.

I agree unless there was fraud involved which doesnt sound like the case here.

However even if it is unreasonable to ask for a refund for a 10 year transaction for example and just because you dont like the color anymore, IF the seller says he will refund it or make a trade of certain trade value, he is now on the hook if he does not come through. All the seller had to say was, 'its been 2 years buddy' no refunds.

Plus this nonsense:

"If the email had been less demanding I probably would have offered a refund, but I don't respond well to discourteousness"

And then there is a later email saying that was probably not the truth by the seller. So now there are two issues the buy can rely on as to why he should get a refund even it is a ridiculous amount of time.

Basically any party can agree to something more than is in a contract if they want but they dont have to in the first place. They shouldnt of offered it up.

Your rent is due in 30 days, but you get an email from the landlord saying he will agree to another 70 days to pay. Well, now you got 70 days. Need to be careful what you say actually, though we do live in an age of alternative facts. Hope you enjoy my net54 grammar.

[Jersey City Giants]

No card or money is worth your reputation period.

[1952boyntoncollector]

It is interesting in terms of how long it is reasonable to ask for a refund people are citing 'regular business practices' such as what a credit card does and then what grading companies do and other examples in the hobby..

when i cited a regular business practice about whether auctions disclose soaking people said regular business practice means nothing if it is wrong etc.

well the seller can always offer more than what a business practice does so if the seller agrees to a refund years later for example, he agreed. When a seller says 'i would of refunded but for your attitude' that means he wouldnt of refunded and is making up a fake excuse.

There are certain things that it is entirely reasonable to ask for a refund years later. Issues such as fraud and collusion. If you learned for example someone from a grading company and a seller colluded to say a card you bought was real, then 6 years later you found out about the collusion and that is was a sure fake, i dont think you should just chalk that up as a loss.

So it all depends.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

When a seller says 'i would of refunded but for your attitude' that means he wouldnt of refunded and is making up a fake excuse.

I 100% agree with this.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I 100% agree with this.

Please note that bnorth agreed with something i said. I will save this post for posterity.

[savedfrommyspokes]

I sell off a fair number of my duplicates.....about once a month I try to delete the scans that are a year+ or older from my hard drive. Several years ago, my hard drive crashed....all of the images I had stored were unable to be accessed.

So, if after 3 years someone who purchased a (non-graded) card decides to return it, how can a seller verify that the card being returned is the same one sold if no scan is not available due to the "extreme" length of time that has passed?

Is it reasonable to expect a seller to keep every scan of every card they sell in their lifetime just in case a return comes up 2-5 years down the road?

What is a reasonable amount of time that a seller should maintain scans of items sold in order to verify a return?

Is it fair for a seller to take a return back that can't be verified by the scan used to sell it?


Not sure if any of this applies to this situation or not...... either way, 3 years is too long for any reasonable buyer to expect to be able to return an item.


Finally, I also have a HOFer's auto that was signed one day when he was in a hurry and it appears NOTHING like ANY other of his autos I have ever seen....

[irv]

Although I have never sold anything here or on E-Bay before, I believe there is a lesson to be learned here, and that is, every seller, no matter how big or how small, should clearly state in their posts/ads, how long their return policy is.

I was going to say 3 months but like, Ted, mentioned, it took him 3 months for an authentication so I don't think 6 months is unreasonable.

I know many know each other here, but despite that, it should still be clearly stated and adhered too.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Really? That is what I get? So, because I trust a seller whom I thought was a close hobby friend and trusted his word I get what I deserve? I deserve to be out $3k? Because he blatantly lied to me, which I have attached images, yet you feel like I deserve this? Are you kidding me? There were no red flags with Jason prior to this. I didn't NEED to send them in to get authenticated because I trusted him. All we have is our word, right?

And BTW, I offer lifetime guarantees with ALL of my items if an autograph is proven to be bad. I have refunded a seller after a year no questions asked. There is no fine line limit like with a credit card.

Yes. Really. If it happened the way you state, that is correct.

Friend? Do you guys go to the movies together? Bowling? Drink beers. Visit on the weekends when you have down time? Would he watch your dog for you if you went away?

What is your definition of a friend? Most people I know are simply acquaintances that when the rubber meets the road don't give a damn about anyone other than themselves. I have few real friends. Ones that would help me bury a body should I need assistance. Ones that would let me stay at their house until I got on my feet.

The world is full of people that befriend someone so that they trust them only to turn around and blatantly rip them off. Don't you ever watch American Greed on CNBC? There are people that rip off their own family. Why is everyone so disappointed when trust is broken? Why do you think that it can't happen to you. Apparently by your account it did.

No offense, but your anger is laughable. Assume that you can trust no one, even the people you consider friends, and this will never happen to you. As long as you think you can trust anyone, you are susceptible to be ripped off.

Street smarts guy....STREET SMARTS.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Yes. Really. If it happened the way you state, that is correct.

Friend? Do you guys go to the movies together? Bowling? Drink beers. Visit on the weekends when you have down time? Would he watch your dog for you if you went away?

What is your definition of a friend? Most people I know are simply acquaintances that when the rubber meets the road don't give a damn about anyone other than themselves. I have few real friends. Ones that would help me bury a body should I need assistance. Ones that would let me stay at their house until I got on my feet.

The world is full of people that befriend someone so that they trust them only to turn around and blatantly rip them off. Don't you ever watch American Greed on CNBC? There are people that rip off their own family. Why is everyone so disappointed when trust is broken? Why do you think that it can't happen to you. Apparently by your account it did.

No offense, but your anger is laughable. Assume that you can trust no one, even the people you consider friends, and this will never happen to you. As long as you think you can trust anyone, you are susceptible to be ripped off.

Street smarts guy....STREET SMARTS.

Abbott,

I don't know Brent or Jason so I cannot comment on their friendship. However, I do 100% agree with your assessment of friend vs. acquaintance.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Yes. Really. If it happened the way you state, that is correct.



Friend? Do you guys go to the movies together? Bowling? Drink beers. Visit on the weekends when you have down time? Would he watch your dog for you if you went away?



What is your definition of a friend? Most people I know are simply acquaintances that when the rubber meets the road don't give a damn about anyone other than themselves. I have few real friends. Ones that would help me bury a body should I need assistance. Ones that would let me stay at their house until I got on my feet.



The world is full of people that befriend someone so that they trust them only to turn around and blatantly rip them off. Don't you ever watch American Greed on CNBC? There are people that rip off their own family. Why is everyone so disappointed when trust is broken? Why do you think that it can't happen to you. Apparently by your account it did.



No offense, but your anger is laughable. Assume that you can trust no one, even the people you consider friends, and this will never happen to you. As long as you think you can trust anyone, you are susceptible to be ripped off.



Street smarts guy....STREET SMARTS.

Oh get off your high horse lol. I guess Phillip Abbott is damn near perfect, who knew.

What is my definition of a friend? Well, mine certainly includes relationships that aren't only face to face and can come over to watch your house. I guess only true friends are the ones that will watch your dog. I have plenty of board members whom I view as friends (hi Chuck) and have had great personal conversations with. But since it's online and I've never met them face to face, they aren't my friend, according to you. And yes, if I dropped dead I certainly would entrust some of these board members to help sell my collection.

Anger laughable? Ok...I actually think my anger has been pretty good compared with what I actually want to say .

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Oh get off your high horse lol. I guess Phillip Abbott is damn near perfect, who knew.

What is my definition of a friend? Well, mine certainly includes relationships that aren't only face to face and can come over to watch your house. I guess only true friends are the ones that will watch your dog. I have plenty of board members whom I view as friends (hi Chuck) and have had great personal conversations with. But since it's online and I've never met them face to face, they aren't my friend, according to you. And yes, if I dropped dead I certainly would entrust some of these board members to help sell my collection.

Anger laughable? Ok...I actually think my anger has been pretty good compared with what I actually want to say .

I am not perfect, but I understand how the world functions and have some basic street smarts. Feel free to continue trusting everyone. We will await your next "I got ripped off" post.

Anger laughable. Yes, I am laughing at the fact that you got angry over something you could have easily prevented. No offense, he handed you a shovel and you dug this whole all on your own. You could have easily not trusted him, sent it in long ago and requested it be corrected right then and there and most likely have met less resistance.

[Econteachert205]

To me both people in this conflict come out not looking terribly well which is too bad.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I am not perfect, but I understand how the world functions and have some basic street smarts. Feel free to continue trusting everyone. We will await your next "I got ripped off" post.



Anger laughable. Yes, I am laughing at the fact that you got angry over something you could have easily prevented. No offense, he handed you a shovel and you dug this whole all on your own. You could have easily not trusted him, sent it in long ago and requested it be corrected right then and there and most likely have met less resistance.

I have plenty of knowledge of this cruel world and plenty of street smarts; but that doesn't mean I trust everyone nor don't trust anyone. I certainly trust people, but I NEVER trust anyone 100%. Never. Not my wife, best friend, parents etc . But that's not to say I didn't trust him.

Could it have easily been prevented? Yes and no. What if he said no still back then? I'm certainly not saying I could have done a better job on my end. Like I said previously, I had no dire need or desire to send them out. They were in town and thought it was,convenient so why not.

LOL, there is no hole. If I had not trusted him then why would I trust he would give me a return then?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

We will await your next "I got ripped off" post.

And, eagerly await my next rip off post? Who is this "we" you speak of. Haha yes, cause in the 10 years I've been collecting this is the first one I've ever started for this. Better get your popcorn ready for 2027!!