PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[aloondilana]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

John forgive me but I am confused a bit. During the auction weren't you vigorously defending the grade? Now you say PSA is the culprit?

Peter,
First off, when you got 50k on the line and a thread pops up while your card is in auction you will do whatever you can to protect yourself.

That being said, I've read you guys
Attack Pwcc, Cortney and anyone else with an opinion.
Not saying you specifically but the board as a whole.

What got my attention is PSA has been skating clean throughout this thread.
They graded the card, whether it's accurate or not. This card has gained a lot of attention and I believe PSA owes this board a statement.
I'm not a grader and while the card was in my possession I never questioned it.
But if a blame is going to be made , I think you all should start with the grading company.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter,
First off, when you got 50k on the line and a thread pops up while your card is in auction you will do whatever you can to protect yourself.

That being said, I've read you guys
Attack Pwcc, Cortney and anyone else with an opinion.
Not saying you specifically but the board as a whole.

What got my attention is PSA has been skating clean throughout this thread.
They graded the card, whether it's accurate or not. This card has gained a lot of attention and I believe PSA owes this board a statement.
I'm not a grader and while the card was in my possession I never questioned it.
But if a blame is going to be made , I think you all should start with the grading company.

John I too would like to understand PSA's rationale for grading the card, particularly as they presumably knew what had been done to it when Brent sent it back to them (assuming he did). But Joe is too smart for that, he is not going to post here about anything controversial, and why should he given PSA's amazing success despite a number of controversies.

[aloondilana]

Peter, Sadly, I tend to agree with you.
PSA knows about the card and pretty sure they know about this thread.
While we probably would only get a canned statement, official recognition from PSA is warranted.

Feelings were hurt because of this card and from what I've read enemies made.
i know I've acted defensive due to such a large investment on the line and I'm sorry for being a bit of a jerk.

Joe Orlando if you read this, we would all like to hear your point of view with this card.
I really think we deserve to hear what you have to say.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter, Sadly, I tend to agree with you.
PSA knows about the card and pretty sure they know about this thread.
While we probably would only get a canned statement, official recognition from PSA is warranted.

Feelings were hurt because of this card and from what I've read enemies made.
i know I've acted defensive due to such a large investment on the line and I'm sorry for being a bit of a jerk.

Joe Orlando if you read this, we would all like to hear your point of view with this card.
I really think we deserve to hear what you have to say.

It's a virtual certainty PSA knew about the thread. They have in my opinion chosen a business model of relative lack of communication and transparency, including poofing every controversial thread that comes up on CU, but obviously they have made the judgment that that's the best way to run their business, and their success validates that.

[irv]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter, Sadly, I tend to agree with you.
PSA knows about the card and pretty sure they know about this thread.
While we probably would only get a canned statement, official recognition from PSA is warranted.

Feelings were hurt because of this card and from what I've read enemies made.
i know I've acted defensive due to such a large investment on the line and I'm sorry for being a bit of a jerk.

Joe Orlando if you read this, we would all like to hear your point of view with this card.
I really think we deserve to hear what you have to say.

John, did those left side marks/stains look as visible in hand as they do in the scans?

I, personally, would be a little more forgiving and less suspicious of the TPG if they are very hard to see, but I can't imagine that with the technology they have and likely use.

I still haven't been able find a PSA 7 card that comes remotely close to looking like this one, not even an older slabbed one?

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Peter,
First off, when you got 50k on the line and a thread pops up while your card is in auction you will do whatever you can to protect yourself.

That being said, I've read you guys
Attack Pwcc, Cortney and anyone else with an opinion.
Not saying you specifically but the board as a whole.

What got my attention is PSA has been skating clean throughout this thread.
They graded the card, whether it's accurate or not. This card has gained a lot of attention and I believe PSA owes this board a statement.
I'm not a grader and while the card was in my possession I never questioned it.
But if a blame is going to be made , I think you all should start with the grading company.

John

This thread was started on 2-3 with the auction ending on 2-7. Four days that action could have been taken.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the card in this auction was your property. Why didn't you pull the card?

No matter who is at fault here, you were the last link in the chain and could have done something.

Jantz

[rajah424]

So, it's wrong for Greg to potentially cost an innocent consignor but what about the potential winner that he might have saved? I feel for John in this situation but seems like he might have some recourse with PWCC. The more times this card is sold it seems it would be more difficult to be made right by the original parties involved in the cleaning of the card.

It would really suck to pay for a PSA 7 and 5 years from now those stains start to reappear.

[ezez420]

I still do not see where Greg is saving anyone money but tampering with an existing auction. Nothing more to it. I am all about honesty and integrity in this hobby which is why I will refrain commenting on others in this post.

The card is in a PSA 7 holder graded by PSA. And I do not see anything wrong with that nor did PSA see anything when grading. There are many cards out there that have had stains etc removed. Would others like it if some of us start digging into some cards that are posted on this board. Lets put it this way there would be a lot of problems if so. There are plenty of scans and high end cards on this board that have been tampered with or changed holders.

This is much different then what people like Battlefield are doing to the public by artificially changing scans to sell a card.

The real question that some of you super sleuths should be asking is who comes up with a $75k price tag on a card in a fictitiously inflated market.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Hopefully Ed, we can discuss and possibly even disagree without devolving into name calling unlike some other people in this thread. Seems like you're the kind of guy who can do that.

There's an inherent flaw in your logic. If people feel that a PSA 7 is a PSA 7 is a PSA 7 then the back story on the card isn't going to matter to them. So in essence it's a self-correcting issue. If the back story bothers you, then you wanted to know, and Greg did the community a service. If you feel the grade absolutely clears any concerns about the card, which you imply (and there are many who agree with that sentiment, just ask the owner of the Diamondbacks.) then the back story doesn't matter and so Greg's post didn't matter.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Hopefully Ed, we can discuss and possibly even disagree without devolving into name calling unlike some other people in this thread. Seems like you're the kind of guy who can do that.

There's an inherent flaw in your logic. If people feel that a PSA 7 is a PSA 7 is a PSA 7 then the back story on the card isn't going to matter to them. So in essence it's a self-correcting issue. If the back story bothers you, then you wanted to know, and Greg did the community a service. If you feel the grade absolutely clears any concerns about the card, which you imply (and there are many who agree with that sentiment, just ask the owner of the Diamondbacks.) then the back story doesn't matter and so Greg's post didn't matter.

Funny you should mention that Scott. Last night I thought how ironic it would be if the owner of the sliced & diced Wagner also bought this 36 WWG DiMaggio.

One question I have for anyone on the board. When did PSA become the almighty authority in this hobby?

Just because PSA says it's a 7 does not mean it is a 7. They gave nothing more than an opinion, which they were paid to do.

[ezez420]

Scott,
I dont see what service Greg did except potentially cost John money who bought card legitly. Not picking a fight but what would you think if I (basis of argument only) go look for some posts on here or collectorsfocus of guys showing off some big cards and I find the before and afters costing them thousands. So next time every major auction has any of the cards up we can say if was screwed with. I have a problem with this and what Greg did during an auction. It does nobody any good except piss people off.

Also on the flip side I dont really believe the $75k. It was an arbitrary number and coming from a guy who made so many people leave hobby for good after the National. And if some people dont see that open your eyes.

[Scocs]

I just don't understand one fundamental thing. I have collected baseball cards, comic books, prints and posters. What do they all have in common?

They are all made of paper.

Comic books, prints, and posters all make restoration a public matter, whether it's by a grading company or by the dealer. Are there omissions? Sure. But just look around and you'll see -- as others have already pointed out -- that original condition, with flaws intact -- commands higher prices than items that have been altered or restored.

Why can't we do the same for baseball cards? Is that too much ask for?