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#1
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Forged Autograph - Read Description - Funny
I thought this description was funny enough to share. Seller is quoting US Supreme Court and trying to prove his case that his autographs are authentic. Classic PT Barnum.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantle-Yogi-...IAAOSwWxNYp3n2 |
#2
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Apparently this guy removed the bulk of his description after I posted this. I would be disappointed if this thief is a member here. Here is what it said.
Supreme Court Delivers Blow To Autograph Authentication! High Court ruling sides with Forensic Document Examiners as Experts rather than practical experience. (March 23, 1999: Gumbo Tire Co. v. Carmichael) The U.S. Supreme Court by an 8-1 ruling told federal trial judges to screen out dubious testimony by self-proclaimed experts when opinions are not based in science. The ruling extends to all manners of individuals such as engineers, psychologists, accountants or handwriting analysts. Before they are permitted to testify to juries, stated examiners must show that their opinions are based on "scientific principals," and not just a hunch based on self-described practical experience. The high court has shown a skepticism toward hired self-proclaimed experts. Six years ago, the Supreme Court said that lower courts should act as "gatekeepers" and to carefully examine testimony by these applicants. Judges should look beyond advertised qualifications and examine the basis of their conclusions on facts. What does this mean to the industry? The decision delivers a major blow to the autograph industry. For years, dealers have served as their own authenticators relying on their stated experience to render an autograph authentic or not. Their reputation and experience have been readily accepted by collectors, auction houses and other dealers. Unfortunately, their opinions are not based on "scientific methods" and can be very subjective. They do not have a laboratory and have not apprenticed under anyone trained. Many fabricate their credentials and are clearly not Court Qualified and/or Board Certified. Their opinions are based solely on their self proclaimed experience. What does this mean to the collector? Simple, if a dealer-authenticated autograph is disputed and taken to court it will not hold up unless the dealer used scientific forensic techniques. Without credentials and facts the dealer will not be allowed to testify because they are not considered experts by the court. You, the collector, will be left hanging. The federal courts will rely on established Court Qualified & Board Certified Forensic Document Examiners as their experts |
#3
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That bullsh-- has been around for years on many ads and web sites.
IMO it is ALWAYS a red flag. In this case it is just more bullsh-- from Florida. And what the hell is a "court recognized exemplar file?" They actually use those words in the COA. There is no such thing. Sounds like just some bullsh-- "alternative facts" to me.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow Last edited by RichardSimon; 02-18-2017 at 07:20 AM. |
#4
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That seller has been posted about before on here for the same stuff.
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#5
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Quote:
Standard boilerplate text from the forgery industry playbook. Forensic, court verified, etc etc. Total garbage. Typical Florida Fake seller using #FakeNews.
__________________
Steve Zarelli Space Authentication Zarelli Space Authentication on Facebook Follow me on Twitter My blog: The Collecting Obsession |
#6
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Ebay seller Jessmk12
Ebay seller Jessmk12 is a long-time seller of the "Florida" forgeries.
All of the sellers of those "Florida" forgeries spew that same crap. http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...mantle-forgery http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...all-coa-not-st http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...oto-safe-at-ho Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 02-18-2017 at 09:13 AM. |
#7
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Quote:
This is the latest "Florida" COA. PlatinumCollectiblesCOA-1.jpg Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 02-18-2017 at 09:18 AM. |
#8
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Same crap different wording.
One important point. You can sure as hell can tell a forged photo by the paper it is written on.: Last edited by shelly; 02-18-2017 at 09:40 AM. |
#9
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+1
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#10
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Quote:
Tom C |
#11
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Does this mean GFA has been kicked to the curb as the "forensics" of choice?
After the distributor of this material admitted in an article it was "for display purposes only," kinda makes you wonder if that caused a rift with the company that was issuing "forensic COAs" with a guarantee for all of it.
__________________
Steve Zarelli Space Authentication Zarelli Space Authentication on Facebook Follow me on Twitter My blog: The Collecting Obsession Last edited by Mr. Zipper; 02-18-2017 at 10:09 AM. |
#12
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Quote:
He probably thinks that will save him when the authorities finally come calling.
__________________
Steve Zarelli Space Authentication Zarelli Space Authentication on Facebook Follow me on Twitter My blog: The Collecting Obsession |
#13
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Quote:
showtimememorabiliaCOA.jpg |
#14
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Quote:
It sounds like you're just jealous that you can't use "dealer uses scientific forensic techniques". Sad thing is that this garbage continues to get bids and people assume that eBay's feedback system is protecting them. I know it's old news, but I thought this was over the top by quoting the Supreme Court. Can't make it up |
#15
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Ebay seller Sportspic4u Mantle Maris Forged Safe At Home Repro
Delusional Ebay autograph collectors continue to buy this "Florida" crap.
Ebay seller Sportspic4u is one of approximately a dozen Ebay sellers who have direct access to this garbage. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roger-Maris-...p2047675.l2557 sportspic4u-30.jpg sportspic4u-31.jpg |
#16
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Quote:
Don't be so generous Steve,,, btc is right. 99.8% garbage, though I guess a broken clock is right twice a day. And btw,,, where do they find forensics who would authenticate something like this? Help wanted ads in the NY Times? "Wanted forensic examiners who really have no scruples. Apply at 646-555-1212 for low paying piece work."
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow Last edited by RichardSimon; 02-18-2017 at 01:57 PM. |
#17
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Quote:
Better than gold or silver ,,, you guys do know how to pick your elements.
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow |
#18
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Quote:
And that Forensic BS. The majority of that garbage is machine-produced and yet Rocchi claims to have forensically examined them. The newer "Florida" forgeries are hand-signed and they are just as pathetic. |
#19
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This is from the 2016 National in Atlantic City.
Below are photos of the "Florida" forgeries. TPod-2.jpg Tpod-4.jpg Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 02-18-2017 at 04:00 PM. |
#20
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Yup. Same exact "product" that typically comes with a "forensic" COA from any number of ebay sellers.
What a hobby...
__________________
Steve Zarelli Space Authentication Zarelli Space Authentication on Facebook Follow me on Twitter My blog: The Collecting Obsession |
#21
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There seems to be no way to stop this garbage from entering the marketplace and continuing to stain and eventually ruining this hobby and its sometimes already shaky reputation with the collecting public and the non collecting public as well.
They say an informed buyer is the best defense against this happening but that is in no way true as long as criminals can hide behind fake credentials and worthless COAs and the SCOTUS is there as their defense, even going so far as to post SCOTUS rulings on their sale pages. Plus eBay knowingly allows this to happen and is complicit in allowing this to continue unabated. You got to love this hobby !!! |
#22
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Quote:
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#23
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I agree 100% . An enabler with no recourse against for the buyer .
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