PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

1952boyntoncollector · #1 02-09-2017, 08:41 AM

Just a thought, but there are some in the camp of 'buy the card, not the holder'

However there is also a camp of 'buy the holder, not the card'

Thus, if its a legit PSA 7, wouldnt you agree that if somone was buying the holder, they care getting what they paid for?

People do sell the holder not the card which I have posted many times. Again, I made an earlier post about if there was a wrinkle that was pressed out and could come back again, I would think its dishonest for that not to be in the description. Thus, not saying i agree with what transpired with the card in this thread.

I am just saying that i believe there are people out there that just buy the holder. I know Peter will then say 'if it doesnt matter, why did the seller not disclose it' Well, i think to make everything uniform and you are in the business of selling holders, you wont go though the history of grading of a card with every card which would save a lot of time and headaches. If you miss some important history on one card for example, then you have to worry about a return, but if its just buyer beware on all cards and up to due dilligence of the buyer that makes it much easier for the seller.

Buyers who do their due dilligence wont pay as much for certain cards etc. Most sellers sell the holder and not the card. Thats why most ebay listings say 'no returns on graded cards'.

Now if this was a RAW card that was fixed up, then I submit any repair history MUST be disclosed.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 02-09-2017, 09:36 AM

Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really? Hell, the seller could just show an image of the flip. Trimmed, recolored, pressed, bleached, soaked, who cares, irrelevant, all trumped by the flip.

bnorth · #3 02-09-2017, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really? Hell, the seller could just show an image of the flip. Trimmed, recolored, pressed, bleached, soaked, who cares, irrelevant, all trumped by the flip.

Peter it is nice to see you are coming around to the reality of card collecting.

Rookiemonster · #4 02-09-2017, 10:04 AM

Nothing to "FLIP" about ......... just ten of thousands of dollars lol .

vintagetoppsguy · #5 02-09-2017, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really? Hell, the seller could just show an image of the flip. Trimmed, recolored, pressed, bleached, soaked, who cares, irrelevant, all trumped by the flip.

Peter, you really don't follow your own advice though. Recently you posted a WTB for a '65 Mays in PSA 7.5 or 8. If it's not about the flip, then why only PSA and why only a 7.5 or 8? I have a gorgeous BVG 7 that I'll sell you that probably blows away any PSA 7 or 8. Are you willing to look at it, or are you resolved to only PSA 7.5 or 8?

PhillipAbbott79 · #6 02-09-2017, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, you really don't follow your own advice though. Recently you posted a WTB for a '65 Mays in PSA 7.5 or 8. If it's not about the flip, then why only PSA and why only a 7.5 or 8? I have a gorgeous BVG 7 that I'll sell you that probably blows away any PSA 7 or 8. Are you willing to look at it, or are you resolved to only PSA 7.5 or 8?

My whole collection is in PSA with a minor amount under other another companies plastic. Grading certain cards can be very costly, so often times it is just easier to get it in your holder of choice from the start.

vintagetoppsguy · #7 02-09-2017, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

My whole collection is in PSA with a minor amount under other another companies plastic. Grading certain cards can be very costly, so often times it is just easier to get it in your holder of choice from the start.

I really don't collect many graded cards, but I see your point. However, that still makes it all about the flip. So, my point is still valid. It's kind of hard to criticize somebody else for buying the flip when the one criticizing it does the same.

Jake made a very good point. The buyer probably really didn't care what the card looked like as long as the flip said PSA 7.

PhillipAbbott79 · #8 02-09-2017, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I really don't collect many graded cards, but I see your point. However, that still makes it all about the flip. So, my point is still valid. It's kind of hard to criticize somebody else for buying the flip when the one criticizing it does the same.

Jake made a very good point. The buyer probably really didn't care what the card looked like as long as the flip said PSA 7.

No. It actually doesn't. You are twisting my words without thinking about them to make what you said more valid.

It can easily be about the cards, but for the presentation. There are plenty of people on here that like SGC because of the way their card looks in the holder, regardless of what the "flip" says the grade is. Additionally, the grading standards are different. Requesting a grading company and a grade when looking to buy something is just as important as conveying an accurate description in a want to sell ad.

"High grade" is subjective. PSA 7.5 is way less subjective. It happens to be the easiest way to put a range on what you are looking for with respect to quality. Would you prefer that everyone type out: I want a card with no less than 40/60 centering left to right, 80/20 top to bottom, clean registration, medium white boarders, no paper loss, somewhat centered on the back, good registration, strong corners?

What constitutes a strong corner, how can you explain the difference between a 6 corner and a 7 corner to someone in a buy thread? I bet if you look at a 6 and a 7 you know what it looks like though, right? You can say all of that with just a simple "PSA 7.5"

vintagetoppsguy · #9 02-09-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

No. It actually doesn't. You are twisting my words without thinking about them to make what you said more valid.

How am I twisting your words when my comment was directed at Peter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

It can easily be about the cards, but for the presentation. There are plenty of people on here that like SGC because of the way their card looks in the holder, regardless of what the "flip" says the grade is.

Duh!

But my point is, when you're looking for a certain card in a certain TPG case with a certain grade, then you're buying the flip and not the cards.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 02-09-2017, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, you really don't follow your own advice though. Recently you posted a WTB for a '65 Mays in PSA 7.5 or 8. If it's not about the flip, then why only PSA and why only a 7.5 or 8? I have a gorgeous BVG 7 that I'll sell you that probably blows away any PSA 7 or 8. Are you willing to look at it, or are you resolved to only PSA 7.5 or 8?

David, I own cards in all of the major holders. I prefer PSA generally because for the most part their grading standards are similar to mine and on a $200 60s card I am not that worried about alteration particularly if the card doesn't set up any red flags. So I don't see that post as at all inconsistent with my ultimate buy the card philosophy.

vintagetoppsguy · #11 02-09-2017, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David, I own cards in all of the major holders. I prefer PSA generally because for the most part their grading standards are similar to mine and on a $200 60s card I am not that worried about alteration particularly if the card doesn't set up any red flags. So I don't see that post as at all inconsistent with my ultimate buy the card philosophy.

When you post a WTB (and you've posted multiple the same way) requesting a specific TPG and/or a specific grade, you are buying the flip and not the card. Otherwise what difference would the TPG or grade even matter? Why not just post "WTB high grade '65 Mays"?

This started because of your sarcastic comment, "Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really?" Yet, you do the same thing with your WTBs. Maybe you don't see the hypocrisy in that. I'm pretty sure others do though.

vintagetoppsguy · #12 02-09-2017, 12:29 PM

The bottom line is this. PSA said it was a 7...twice now. I think most of us agree (and I've already said it too) it doesn't look like a 7. To most of us, it looks over graded. The PSA apologists can't blame this one on a "mechanical error". So what do you want to happen at this point? PSA is not going to change the grade. What good is b!tching about it doing? Let me ask again, what do you want to happen at this point???

ullmandds · #13 02-09-2017, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The bottom line is this. PSA said it was a 7...twice now. I think most of us agree (and I've already said it too) it doesn't look like a 7. To most of us, it looks over graded. The PSA apologists can't blame this one on a "mechanical error". So what do you want to happen at this point? PSA is not going to change the grade. What good is b!tching about it doing? Let me ask again, what do you want to happen at this point???

do we really know psa re-reviewed this card? seemed like a statement made to appease especially in light of no response from the AH?

KendallCat · #14 02-09-2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, you really don't follow your own advice though. Recently you posted a WTB for a '65 Mays in PSA 7.5 or 8. If it's not about the flip, then why only PSA and why only a 7.5 or 8? I have a gorgeous BVG 7 that I'll sell you that probably blows away any PSA 7 or 8. Are you willing to look at it, or are you resolved to only PSA 7.5 or 8?

Personally I have seen nice cards in BVG that I won't touch. I don't trust them on vintage and a lot of big collectors and dealers don't either. That is why you don't see them sell very often nor for high prices. Plus, if you collect PSA cards only that would negate wanting any SGC or BVG holders. It is also deflecting away from the real issue with this card in question which is the reason for 23 pages of discussion.

vintagetoppsguy · #15 02-09-2017, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KendallCat

Plus, if you collect PSA cards only that would negate wanting any SGC or BVG holders.

Bingo! This is the point I was trying to make. Maybe I didn't explain myself well. Peter, made a comment (in bold below) trying to be sarcastic that it's in a PSA holder and that's all that matters. Well, maybe the buyer only collects PSA and really doesn't care about the card as long as the grade isn't too far off. But I just find it a little hypocritical to blame the buyer if that was his only justification for buying the card when he (Peter) requests to buy only PSA cards himself (not considering BVG, SGC, etc). But like i said, it's not worth arguing about.

Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really?

botn · #16 02-09-2017, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

But like i said, it's not worth arguing about.

Are ya sure about that?

1952boyntoncollector · #17 02-09-2017, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really? Hell, the seller could just show an image of the flip. Trimmed, recolored, pressed, bleached, soaked, who cares, irrelevant, all trumped by the flip.

correct. for some who think the price of a card would be reflecting the lowest priced 7 but its a 7, they wont care at all what the card looks like as long as its a 7 and they are paying the cheapest possible price to get a 7 in their mind

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