PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[ccre]

HOLY MOLY. I'm in the wrong business. Definitely crazy ROI.

[HRBAKER]

Never Get Cheated!

[D. Bergin]

It takes a lot of balls to soak a $6600 card, but I guess it paid off in end.

Still a NM (7) and you can still see the remnants of the tape stains IS a little concerning.

Wonder if that would be a (7) on any modern card with similar evidence of past taping on it.

Looking at the REA auction, it was probably cleaned up just to get the (4). Now another round of cleaning got it to a (7).

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

It takes a lot of balls to soak a $6600 card, but I guess it paid off in end.

Still a NM (7) and you can still see the remnants of the tape stains IS a little concerning.

Wonder if that would be a (7) on any modern card with similar evidence of past taping on it.

Looking at the REA auction, it was probably cleaned up just to get the (4). Now another round of cleaning got it to a (7).

Yep, some crack professional grading all the way around.

[irv]

Is there a company not out there that specifically cleans/fixes cards?

It's hard to say with this pic/card, but I would tend to believe it was professionally done?

[HRBAKER]

It may have been professionally done.
The question is why wasn't it "professionally" caught?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

It may have been professionally done.
The question is why wasn't it "professionally" caught?

Because there is no money in that.

[Jobu]

I don't know much about restoration of cards, but to me this looks like the first card was up against some acidic paper and the two corners were protected. The result is toning, which happens in old prints that have been framed with non-acid free mats and backing. The process to remove this toning is well established and very common. If my assumptions are correct, it might not have taken a whole lot to remove the toning from this one.

[seablaster]

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by irv

Is there a company not out there that specifically cleans/fixes cards?

It's hard to say with this pic/card, but I would tend to believe it was professionally done?

There's restoration companies that clean up posters, but that's more accepted in that field.

They aren't cheap but I'm sure some of them would handle cards if given the business. This one certainly paid off for somebody.

Likely not the guy who bought it from Goldin though. They'll probably be ecstatic if they break even at this point.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

It takes a lot of balls to soak a $6600 card, but I guess it paid off in end.

Still a NM (7) and you can still see the remnants of the tape stains IS a little concerning.

Wonder if that would be a (7) on any modern card with similar evidence of past taping on it.

Looking at the REA auction, it was probably cleaned up just to get the (4). Now another round of cleaning got it to a (7).

THey're not tape stains. The REA listing describes the marks very well, the card is age toned EXCEPT in those odd rectangular patches, so something was resting on or protecting those areas of original color. I want to know how they removed the toning from the rest of the card to get it to match those spots of original color so well.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

THey're not tape stains. The REA listing describes the marks very well, the card is age toned EXCEPT in those odd rectangular patches, so something was resting on or protecting those areas of original color. I want to know how they removed the toning from the rest of the card to get it to match those spots of original color so well.

I highly doubt this fellow Net54 member will reveal his card doctoring secrets but he would do the work for you for a small or large fee. http://www.gonewiththestain.com/

[aloondilana]

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

If that is really your belief I have some awesome missing color cards I would love to sell you.

Just so you know those women that lose 75 pounds only look hot with clothes on.

[aloondilana]

So true!!

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

i don't care about its past, it's a psa 7 now and i'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

lolol

[Neal]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

Great card, and have zero problem with removing tape and stain residue

If I had the cheddar, I'd still want to own it

[aloondilana]

Right !!! It's a darn POP 1 PSA 7. None higher!!!
Why are we even attempting to knock this card?
Any one of us would kill to have this.

[botn]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Right !!! It's a darn POP 1 PSA 7. None higher!!!
Why are we even attempting to knock this card?
Any one of us would kill to have this.

Gee John I hope that is not how you came to own it.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Right !!! It's a darn POP 1 PSA 7. None higher!!!
Why are we even attempting to knock this card?
Any one of us would kill to have this.

+1 there. Now if only my (ungraded) ExMt R312 DiMag rookie would only follow suit (and PSA hasn't graded too many more of those)!

Highest regards,

Larry

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

Are we talking about shallow "Joe"

[orly57]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

That is a great analogy, but in the eyes of some (like Peter) it would be like she lost that 75 pounds by having marathon sex with hundreds of different men. Yeah, she looks great, but she is tarnished. I happen to agree with you that I don't really care if the card was soaked so long as it grades. The Mona Lisa and the Sisteen Chapel get restored all the time. I don't think any of us would consider those works of art to be tarnished or less valuable because of it. After all aren't baseball cards just small pieces of art?

[Peter_Spaeth]

There is no deception in art restoration. There is a world of deception in baseball card restoration/alteration, because rarely is any of it disclosed, and the whole point is to make a card look better and grade higher while deceiving the grading companies and potential buyers into thinking it's original.

As I said, if the restoration in this case is no big deal, then the consignor should have no objection to its disclosure. But something tells me the consignor would have been furious if PWCC had posted a picture of the SGC 50 in the auction and explained the work done by Towle or whoever did it.

Can't have it both ways. If it's acceptable and even a good thing as some seem to be saying, you should have no objection to disclosure.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is no deception in art restoration. There is a world of deception in baseball card restoration/alteration, because rarely is any of it disclosed, and the whole point is to make a card look better and grade higher while deceiving the grading companies and potential buyers into thinking it's original.

As I said, if the restoration in this case is no big deal, then the consignor should have no objection to its disclosure. But something tells me the consignor would have been furious if PWCC had posted a picture of the SGC 50 in the auction and explained the work done by Towle or whoever did it.

Can't have it both ways. If it's acceptable and even a good thing as some seem to be saying, you should have no objection to disclosure.

All fair points

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is no deception in art restoration. There is a world of deception in baseball card restoration/alteration, because rarely is any of it disclosed, and the whole point is to make a card look better and grade higher while deceiving the grading companies and potential buyers into thinking it's original.

As I said, if the restoration in this case is no big deal, then the consignor should have no objection to its disclosure. But something tells me the consignor would have been furious if PWCC had posted a picture of the SGC 50 in the auction and explained the work done by Towle or whoever did it.

Can't have it both ways. If it's acceptable and even a good thing as some seem to be saying, you should have no objection to disclosure.

Well said Peter. Can't agree more.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

Highest graded example (last time I checked) by PSA of a truly iconic player and card. IMHO, this is the direction the hobby will definitely be headed in (and only 27 or so total graded by PSA). Rare and significant in the best condition available! This assumes that the card was merely water-soaked, as I agree that other more intensive card-altering procedures require transparency.

May your collecting bring you immense joy,

Larry

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I don't care about its past, it's a PSA 7 now and I'll take it!!!

It's like a fat broad that loses 75 pounds and becomes hot.

isn't this enough?

[swarmee]

I would have Brent's team spell check their listings better. On this high value piece, the following words are all spelled wrong:
"imensly"
"it's" used incorrectly
"diversifcation"
"beyong"

It's not a blog post, guys.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Some detailed pics that were provided to me comparing the 50 to the 7 (7 scans are from the Goldin auction).

[Peter_Spaeth]

That ID has been called out many times before. No reason to believe John has anything to do with it.

[Whodunit]

So, did we ever decide who was behind the scam here? Who won it in REA....who cracked it.....who washed it....who submitted to psa......who THAT ONE PERSON sold the card to.

[Bliggity]

...

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

So, did we ever decide who was behind the scam here? Who won it in REA....who cracked it.....who washed it....who submitted to psa......who THAT ONE PERSON sold the card to.

I think it was colonel mustard did it with the candle stick in the 3rd floor bathroom .

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

So, did we ever decide who was behind the scam here? Who won it in REA....who cracked it.....who washed it....who submitted to psa......who THAT ONE PERSON sold the card to.

I would not call it a scam, its a legit graded psa 7 card.

[Whodunit]

So, you don't think that buying an SGC 50 in REA, cracking it, cleaning it and then submitting raw to PSA is a scam? You also don't think that selling (as being the same person) a card privately for 75K without revealing such information (disclosure) is a problem? Now, as someone with more than a 3rd grade education, I find that hard to believe.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

So, you don't think that buying an SGC 50 in REA, cracking it, cleaning it and then submitting raw to PSA is a scam? You also don't think that selling (as being the same person) a card privately for 75K without revealing such information (disclosure) is a problem? Now, as someone with more than a 3rd grade education, I find that hard to believe.

point is some like to out auctions such as these...point out evidence that proves foulplay is occurring...we all squawk about it for a spell...auction house owner comes on the board with a declaration stating everything is on the up and up...in this case even the brash consigner states his case...the auction ends and we all move on.

this hobby is full of crooks...littered with them...way more crooks than honest joes in this hobby. some have paid a price but the majority continue to flourish here there and everywhere.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

So, you don't think that buying an SGC 50 in REA, cracking it, cleaning it and then submitting raw to PSA is a scam? You also don't think that selling (as being the same person) a card privately for 75K without revealing such information (disclosure) is a problem? Now, as someone with more than a 3rd grade education, I find that hard to believe.

So, are you the person who bought the card, the person you are wondering about in your above posts, or someone who somehow got caught in the middle of this? You joined under user name "Whodunit" right in the middle of the Scooby Doo mystery. That is not suspicious in the least.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I would not call it a scam, its a legit graded psa 7 card.

It's fraud to sell an item without disclosing a known material fact. It's the same as lying. You're a lawyer, you know that. Are you seriously saying it's not material that the card came out of an SGC 50 and was worked on before being graded a 7 by PSA?

[Whodunit]

To further that argument Peter, regarding not disclosing material facts, make sure that he knows that we know who won it in REA, who cracked it, who graded it raw by PSA and who sold it to the "first" buyer (as a private sale). There have been 4 owners in a PSA holder: 1) the "person" who bought it from REA and worked on it, 2) the person he sold it to, 3) John Perez via Goldin Auctions and now 4) the winner of Brent's auction. I wouldn't put it past Brent to have won the card himself just to get that cert # off of the mkt. Quite frankly, I've got some pretty juicy texts, emails, spreadsheets,etc. from the "man himself" regarding this card. It will surely be fun to see some of his guys (I was one of them for a long time) come to his defense. If you noticed early on in this thread, he defended this card 3 days into the auction, monitors this board tirelessly (told me to stay away from it {the board}..........."I've got it handled"), yet slipped away like a thief in the night when facts start divulging about who actually had factual and material information about the card from the point of its coming out of REA. He left John hanging high and dry when the rubber hit the road.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's fraud to sell an item without disclosing a known material fact. It's the same as lying. You're a lawyer, you know that. Are you seriously saying it's not material that the card came out of an SGC 50 and was worked on before being graded a 7 by PSA?

Well the card is not fake. So should the guy who buys the card after its sold 3 times as a psa7 have to take the card back even if didnt know it was an SGC 50. Becomes a slippery slope. Theres no 'should of known' issue.

People can buy the card not the holder as well. The card is a legit PSA 7 is all i am saying (doesnt PSA have some type of guarantee). Im sure you have bought a card that 20 years ago maybe it was in another holder 4 grades below, do you track down that guy if you find that out.

If we are just talking about the one guy that did the doctoring, what if its soaked? I havent seen any auction in history talk about a card being soaked. Thus, being soaked isnt a material fact which appears well established.


Not saying its a good thing, but saying its not a 'scam'

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's fraud to sell an item without disclosing a known material fact. It's the same as lying. You're a lawyer, you know that. Are you seriously saying it's not material that the card came out of an SGC 50 and was worked on before being graded a 7 by PSA?

Peter, as I mentioned in post 277 and 281, there are ways of removing toning without any chemicals, water or anything else even touching the card. In fact, some museums use this process. I think "fraud" is a matter of interpretation. If I buy a card that is a PSA 7ST because of a wax stain on the front surface, crack the card, clean the wax with nylon and then re-submit it to PSA, is that fraud? Not sure where you really draw the line?

All that said, I can understand a buyer wanting to know the card's history, but I really don't think it's fraud. Can you show me one case where a person has ever been convicted of removing a stain or toning or whatever from a card?