OT - New Hall of Famers: Bagwell, Raines and Ivan Rodriguez

ejharrington · #1 01-24-2017, 03:20 PM

The Hall of Fame by definition should be geared towards FAMOUS players whose careers were deemed elite. There are different ways to measure whether they were elite (i.e., WAR and SABR-metrics, traditional stats, etc.) but statistics alone cannot be the determining measure otherwise there would be no need to have a vote; there would be bright statistical lines to determine who gets in (e.g., JAWS).

As a 47 year old who has watched baseball my entire life, Curt Schilling, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez, and Sammy Sosa were some of the best ballplayers I have ever saw, are well-known to both fans and non-fans of baseball, have elite statistics, and were central figures in some of the most memorable moments in baseball history.

These players, along with no-longer eligible Mark McGuire, Pete Rose, and Keith Hernandez, should clearly be in the Hall of Fame.

No offense to Tim Raines, Vlad Guerrero, Trevor Hoffman, etc., but when you look at their bodies of work they simply are not on the level of the players I noted above.

sycks22 · #2 01-24-2017, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejharrington

The Hall of Fame by definition should be geared towards FAMOUS players whose careers were deemed elite. There are different ways to measure whether they were elite (i.e., WAR and SABR-metrics, traditional stats, etc.) but statistics alone cannot be the determining measure otherwise there would be no need to have a vote; there would be bright statistical lines to determine who gets in (e.g., JAWS).

As a 47 year old who has watched baseball my entire life, Curt Schilling, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez, and Sammy Sosa were some of the best ballplayers I have ever saw, are well-known to both fans and non-fans of baseball, have elite statistics, and were central figures in some of the most memorable moments in baseball history.

These players, along with no-longer eligible Mark McGuire, Pete Rose, and Keith Hernandez, should clearly be in the Hall of Fame.

No offense to Tim Raines, Vlad Guerrero, Trevor Hoffman, etc., but when you look at their bodies of work they simply are not on the level of the players I noted above.

You lost me at no Vlad and put Keith Hernandez on there. Outside of being a good fielding 1 bagger, what did he do? Average is every way. Will Clark was better is every offensive category and nobody is making an argument for him.

ejharrington · #3 01-25-2017, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycks22

You lost me at no Vlad and put Keith Hernandez on there. Outside of being a good fielding 1 bagger, what did he do? Average is every way. Will Clark was better is every offensive category and nobody is making an argument for him.

They were similar players (I might give a slight edge to Clark on offense and an edge to Hernandez on defense) although SABR-metrics rates Hernandez as having a better overall career. But Hernandez also won an MVP and was one of the main contributors to 2 World Championship teams. Plus, everyone knows who Keith Hernandez is which is part of my whole point that the Hall of Fame should consider fame and recognition along with the statistics. I'm not saying Vlad is not necessarily a HOFer, I just don't think he is at the level of the players I listed.

Snapolit1 · #4 01-25-2017, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejharrington

The Hall of Fame by definition should be geared towards FAMOUS players whose careers were deemed elite. There are different ways to measure whether they were elite (i.e., WAR and SABR-metrics, traditional stats, etc.) but statistics alone cannot be the determining measure otherwise there would be no need to have a vote; there would be bright statistical lines to determine who gets in (e.g., JAWS).

As a 47 year old who has watched baseball my entire life, Curt Schilling, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez, and Sammy Sosa were some of the best ballplayers I have ever saw, are well-known to both fans and non-fans of baseball, have elite statistics, and were central figures in some of the most memorable moments in baseball history.

These players, along with no-longer eligible Mark McGuire, Pete Rose, and Keith Hernandez, should clearly be in the Hall of Fame.

No offense to Tim Raines, Vlad Guerrero, Trevor Hoffman, etc., but when you look at their bodies of work they simply are not on the level of the players I noted above.

Your idea is basically just another way of saying big market guys from the east and west coast and Chicago who get a ton on hype and are better known personality wise (like Keith) should be in the hall, while guys who toiled in relative obscurity in San Diego and Montreal before small crowds and few reporters should get short shrift.

bbcard1 · #5 01-25-2017, 12:51 PM

Keith Hernandez also had the Just For Men commercials going for him.

Snapolit1 · #6 01-25-2017, 01:16 PM

It shouldnt be the hall of popularity.
If Jorge Posada played for the Twins there wouldn't have been a one second discussion as to whether he was HOF material.

ejharrington · #7 01-27-2017, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Your idea is basically just another way of saying big market guys from the east and west coast and Chicago who get a ton on hype and are better known personality wise (like Keith) should be in the hall, while guys who toiled in relative obscurity in San Diego and Montreal before small crowds and few reporters should get short shrift.

No, because I think Tony Gwynn and Gary Carter spent all or good parts of their careers in San Diego / Montreal and they are no-doubt HOFers. People other than die-hard baseball fans know who they are.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Raines, Bagwell and IRod get the call	Griffins	Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk	36	01-24-2017 11:07 AM
FS: Ivan Rodriguez and Roger Clemens 8x10's PSA	Sportskansascity	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	2	06-27-2015 06:04 AM
FS: Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez Signed Game Used Mizuno Bat	sprtsrul11	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	0	06-15-2013 10:46 AM
Looking for hall of famers	jb217676	Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, etc..) B/S/T	7	05-18-2011 10:44 AM
T-210 Hall of Famers?	M's_Fan	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	9	10-15-2010 05:24 PM