Dan McKee is a Star

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Zinn's daughter filled out his HOF form in 1949 and listed him as "Jewish". That's rock solid to me. She would have no reason to lie, and she IMO being directly related to him and having I assume lived with him for probably the first 18-20 years of her life might know something about him.

This is 100% sour grapes.

You trust his daughter over some unidentified woman who did "extensive" research on ancestory.com?

[PhillipAbbott79]

I am not sure it matters. You have one guy on the face of the planet that wanted to spend a monstrous sum of money over what the card is probably worth on a card that is at my guess a low population and also low demand.

If he or I was a business man, that was the right time to sell. It is likely worth less to a lot of other people. Values, morals or not, it will likely never be sold for more than what was offered, but I have definitely been wrong before. LOL.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I am not sure it matters. You have one guy on the face of the planet that wanted to spend a monstrous sum of money over what the card is probably worth on a card that is at my guess a low population and also low demand.

If he or I was a business man, that was the right time to sell. It is likely worth less to a lot of other people. Values, morals or not, it will likely never be sold for more than what was offered, but I have definitely been wrong before. LOL.

It seems pretty simple to me. He backed out of the deal he had agreed to after Dan did exactly what was asked of him and got the card graded. The grade didn't change anything about the card. It was the same card he had already agreed to buy and it was still the only one known. Whatever it graded was largely irrelevant. It just gave the guy an excuse to reneg. That's BS and I don't blame Dan a bit for telling the guy to F off. I would have too.

[1880nonsports]

only if his MOTHER was Jewish or she had converted from a religious standpoint. Not sure what the rules for the Jewish Museum are (self-serving?). He could still practice the faith in either case.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

only if his MOTHER was Jewish or she had converted from a religious standpoint. Not sure what the rules for the Jewish Museum are (self-serving?). He could still practice the faith in either case.

I'm unfamiliar with the Museum's standards but believe that Jewish Sports Review does not follow strict doctrine and thus includes all athletes where either parent is Jewish, athlete did not practice another faith during career, and self-identifies as ethnically Jewish.

But, even if one were to adopt this broader standard, Zinn's status remains unclear as the Wechsler article states that BOTH of his parents were Christians. I would be most interested in learning the basis for that conclusion, which would appear to be inconsistent with the HOF library form completed by Zinn's daughter. To square the conclusion that both parents were Christians with the form would require quite a stretch -- that Zinn's daughter interpreted the term 'ancestry' to mean the folks in the 'old country' and not necessarily Zinn's religion.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

It seems pretty simple to me. He backed out of the deal he had agreed to after Dan did exactly what was asked of him and got the card graded. The grade didn't change anything about the card. It was the same card he had already agreed to buy and it was still the only one known. Whatever it graded was largely irrelevant. It just gave the guy an excuse to reneg. That's BS and I don't blame Dan a bit for telling the guy to F off. I would have too.

Well, like I was saying, I know he can do what he wants, and that he did do what he wants and I don't fault him for it, BUT it was likely from a financial decision a terrible idea to do what he did. He will likely never get that price again. That was the point. Nothing more or less.

[Snapolit1]

If you think that hasn't hurt the value of this card I have a large box of Jose Fernandez rookie card I would like to sell you.

[rjackson44]

love barry classy all the way ,,,

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I'm unfamiliar with the Museum's standards but believe that Jewish Sports Review does not follow strict doctrine and thus includes all athletes where either parent is Jewish, athlete did not practice another faith during career, and self-identifies as ethnically Jewish.

But, even if one were to adopt this broader standard, Zinn's status remains unclear as the Wechsler article states that BOTH of his parents were Christians. I would be most interested in learning the basis for that conclusion, which would appear to be inconsistent with the HOF library form completed by Zinn's daughter. To square the conclusion that both parents were Christians with the form would require quite a stretch -- that Zinn's daughter interpreted the term 'ancestry' to mean the folks in the 'old country' and not necessarily Zinn's religion.

Mark, I believe it was religious rather than national origin because decades ago using religion was a commonplace part of ethnic identification alongside national origins. In the 1921-28 issues with the printed backs Jewish fighters were labeled as “Jewish”, “Jewish-American”, “Hebrew” or “Hebrew-American”, while fighters from other immigrant populations were categorized as “hyphen-Americans” (Polish-American, German-American, etc.) or from their family’s original locations. This applied even to fighters who were born in the United States. It is typical to see a fighter born in New York listed as Hebrew, Irish, Polish or Scottish. My favorite one of these nationality identifiers was that of Leo Lomski, a native Washingtonian who was identified in the 1928 set as “Polish-Jewish-American”. The racial tone of the era also was reflected in the cards. African-American fighters were frequently referred to as “colored” champions.

[mark evans]

Thanks, Adam.

You know it also occurred to me that, while certainly not the most likely explanation for squaring Zinn's alleged Christian parents with the HOF form, it is possible that he merely claimed to be Jewish, for whatever reason I cannot imagine. But, I believe another early ballplayer (Jacob Atz?) apparently did that very thing.

[ramram]

For Zinn to be considered Jewish, it would only be necessary for his mother to be Jewish, correct? So Zinn, his father, is not terribly relevant. It would be his mother. It would be interesting to know her story and maiden name. They could have then chose to raise their kids Christian, following the father's faith.

Rob M

[howard38]

Originally Posted by mark evans

Thanks, Adam.

You know it also occurred to me that, while certainly not the most likely explanation for squaring Zinn's alleged Christian parents with the HOF form, it is possible that he merely claimed to be Jewish, for whatever reason I cannot imagine. But, I believe another early ballplayer (Jacob Atz?) apparently did that very thing.

He may have been marketed as a Jew by the Yankees. He played for them at the height of the Jewish migration to NYC in the 1910s so it could have been a stunt to draw in Jewish fans. I believe the New York Rangers did something like that in their early days.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by howard38

He may have been marketed as a Jew by the Yankees. He played for them at the height of the Jewish migration to NYC in the 1910s so it could have been a stunt to draw in Jewish fans. I believe the New York Rangers did something like that in their early days.

Great point. Touché.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

It seems pretty simple to me. He backed out of the deal he had agreed to after Dan did exactly what was asked of him and got the card graded. The grade didn't change anything about the card. It was the same card he had already agreed to buy and it was still the only one known. Whatever it graded was largely irrelevant. It just gave the guy an excuse to reneg. That's BS and I don't blame Dan a bit for telling the guy to F off. I would have too.

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

[irv]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

That is what I thought as well when I read the article. I immediately thought of Battlefield and how she "manipulates" her cards to look better than what they actually are.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

Thank about that for a minute. There is only one card known. ONE. Why would Dan alter a scan to improve the condition of the ONLY card known in order to sell it to a guy who is allegedly begging to buy it? Why would he try to do that? That doesn't even make sense when the only question is if the card is real. Plus, I don't think Dan would do that even if he could. He has never been anything but honest and upfront in the dealings I've had with him. Just my opinion but if that's the allegation, I would believe Dan over the buyer based on the currently available facts.

Kenny

[irv]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Thank about that for a minute. There is only one card known. ONE. Why would Dan alter a scan to improve the condition of the ONLY card known in order to sell it to a guy who is allegedly begging to buy it? Why would he try to do that? That doesn't even make sense when the only question is if the card is real. Plus, I don't think Dan would do that even if he could. He has never been anything but honest and upfront in the dealings I've had with him. Just my opinion but if that's the allegation, I would believe Dan over the buyer based on the currently available facts.

Kenny

These quotes were what I used to come to my conclusion. I am not saying, suggesting or alluding to this is what was done by, Dan, it was based on what was written within the article.

"Aeder balked because, he said, he received a poor appraisal of the card’s condition".

"The final grade disturbed Aeder. “The pictures he had sent did not look like it was a one,” Aeder said".

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Thank about that for a minute. There is only one card known. ONE. Why would Dan alter a scan to improve the condition of the ONLY card known in order to sell it to a guy who is allegedly begging to buy it? Why would he try to do that? That doesn't even make sense when the only question is if the card is real. Plus, I don't think Dan would do that even if he could. He has never been anything but honest and upfront in the dealings I've had with him. Just my opinion but if that's the allegation, I would believe Dan over the buyer based on the currently available facts.

Kenny

To add another 2 cents to the debate, I am sure there are many instances where a seller gives perfectly honest scans and the card just looks subjectively different in hand. Lighting, angle, etc. No attempt by anyone to defraud anyone. I have the damnedest time sometimes getting halfway decent scans.

[Sean]

I got the impression that the buyer was always planning to try to lower the purchase price. He asked Dan to have the card graded so that he had an excuse to negotiate a reduced price. Just my opinion, but I don't think the buyer ever intended to buy at that price. As Dan said, 1 of 1 is the only number that matters.

[mark evans]

I have NO doubt that Dan is telling the truth about this transaction. Absolutely none.

As I don't know Mr. Aeder, I could not speak to his motives.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Sean

I got the impression that the buyer was always planning to try to lower the purchase price. He asked Dan to have the card graded so that he had an excuse to negotiate a reduced price. Just my opinion, but I don't think the buyer ever intended to buy at that price. As Dan said, 1 of 1 is the only number that matters.

+1

[conor912]

If I was willing to pay six figures for a card, you can be damn sure I would fly to wherever it resided to look at the in person before finalizing an offer. This whole debacle coming down to the quality of scans is absurd, imho.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Sean

I got the impression that the buyer was always planning to try to lower the purchase price. He asked Dan to have the card graded so that he had an excuse to negotiate a reduced price. Just my opinion, but I don't think the buyer ever intended to buy at that price. As Dan said, 1 of 1 is the only number that matters.

+2

And it's even more apparent that the butthurt is flowing through this guy pretty heavily right now.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I have NO doubt that Dan is telling the truth about this transaction. Absolutely none.

+1, as I have known Dan for a long time.

[glynparson]

Count me among those who believe Dan's account 100%.

[Exhibitman]

Since this is all memorialized in scans and emails the trail is pretty clear. From where I sit it looks like a straightforward breach of contract case with a substantial loss of profit claim and some consequential damages. I would sue but that's because I can represent myself for free.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by irv

These quotes were what I used to come to my conclusion. I am not saying, suggesting or alluding to this is what was done by, Dan, it was based on what was written within the article.

"Aeder balked because, he said, he received a poor appraisal of the card’s condition".

"The final grade disturbed Aeder. “The pictures he had sent did not look like it was a one,” Aeder said".

To me, that sounds like the grade that the card came back with was lower than either party expected, but that the number grade only ever mattered to one of them.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Agreed on good to see Barry

Good lord, if someone offered me $125K for a card which I paid 1/50th of that for, I would sell that card so fast in a heartbeat. After all, I can keep the scan and the pictures and the memories. But that money can pay for a couple years of college or other fun ventures.

Rich

Rich my dear friend.... It ain't all about the money

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by DaClyde

I guess I'm missing the alleged "dispute". Seller wants more than the prospective buyer is offering and the story seems to end there.

Dispute was buyer agreed to a price after seeing huge scans. Then backed out

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

No disrespect intended to the featured parties, but my first reaction was confusion as to what counts as journalism these days.

No argument here

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

They should split the difference and do the deal. If another one surfaces tomorrow the could have been seller takes a huge hit.

At this point, a million dollars of Jeff's money won't buy the card.... I do not do business like that period!

I don't care about "the hit" The problem with the hobby is it is all about money, I will gladly get buried with this card, I do not need the money... GET IT?

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Luke

No offense but this seems like a really asinine comment. The guy looked at a scan and said he would pay $125k. Then he saw the same card in the SGC 10 holder and backed out of the deal. What difference are you even talking about? The article doesn't even list the guys counter-offer after he backed out of the deal.

If I agreed to buy a raw card from you for $500, then when you got it back from SGC I said actually, I'll only pay $300, would you be fine with splitting that difference? You'd probably tell me to take a hike for backing out of a deal.

A deal made for a raw card is just as valid as a deal made for a graded card. Deals like that happen every day with just front and back scans.

Bingo Luke! Thanks for the sensible post! Dan

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Grapes soured at all there?

"Meanwhile, I contacted the National Baseball Hall of Fame Library, which maintains a file of player biographical information filled out either by the ballplayers or family members. Under “ancestry,” Mrs. E.W. Talley had written “German-Jew” on Guy Zinn’s profile page. Jean Talley was Zinn’s daughter. The form was filled out after Zinn’s death in 1949."

Zinn's daughter wrote he was Jewish on the record for the HOF? That is pretty solid evidence.

His death certificate [http://thedeadballera.com/DeathCerti...nn.Guy.DC.pdf] lists his father as Noah Zinn.

Odds are his father was Jewish ahd his kids considered themselves Jewish, if that is what she wrote.

His grave isn't of use; he's buried in a non-denominational graveyard in WV.

The rest is speculation.

I guess if Dan had sold the card for $10,000 Zinn would have been Jewish...

I had nothing to do with him being Jewish, and could care less either way as I collect the Baltimore News Schedule cards.

You people are way to into the value part of the hobby, I have refused tons of money for cards that I will never be able to sell later for the same amount.

Dan Mckee

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Leon

Was Zinn circumcised?

Classic!

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by tim

Steve,
I don't think Adam's "sour grapes" remark was directed at you. If I read him right, he's commenting on the fact that the article on Zinn not being Jewish appears on the Jewish Baseball Website. This website, according to the New York Times article, was created by Mr. Aeder, the prospective buyer of the card.
--Tim

Bingo..... Man you people are not as dumb as I look

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Agree 100%.

I guess the logic is, if I can't have a card I need from my collection to be complete, I'll make it so I don't need the card anymore. And BOOM! Collection complete.

Bingo again! You are all learning that Aeder is a cry baby.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If you think that hasn't hurt the value of this card I have a large box of Jose Fernandez rookie card I would like to sell you.

Who cares/..... I am keeping it so if it is valued at $100 or $1,000,000.00 doesn't matter.... I have tons of other expensive cards so means nothing to me!

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by irv

That is what I thought as well when I read the article. I immediately thought of Battlefield and how she "manipulates" her cards to look better than what they actually are.

This is complete BULLSHIT! I sent him regular scans at 300 dpi

I sell as darby-s and you get what you see in my listings

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting here

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Sean

I got the impression that the buyer was always planning to try to lower the purchase price. He asked Dan to have the card graded so that he had an excuse to negotiate a reduced price. Just my opinion, but I don't think the buyer ever intended to buy at that price. As Dan said, 1 of 1 is the only number that matters.

Bingo again!! Some of you are much smarter than others here

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I have NO doubt that Dan is telling the truth about this transaction. Absolutely none.

As I don't know Mr. Aeder, I could not speak to his motives.

Thanks Mark, you are a good friend

[danmckee]

When this first happened I posted here asking if anyone has done business with Aeder because I had a bad transaction. One guy answered that this was the funniest thing he had ever heard.... well I hope he read the article.


Personally I thought the card belonged in Jeff's museum even though I never part with my schedule cards.


But with a deal gone sour, I am very happy to keep it whether it is worth the $2K I paid for it or not.

Dan Mckee.

[MartyFromCANADA]

Originally Posted by danmckee

You people are way to into the value part of the hobby, I have refused tons of money for cards that I will never be able to sell later for the same amount.

Dan Mckee

I can attest to this statement. He has some sweet Gibson candy cards. Won't sell

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

This is ridiculous, I do not doctor photos, the guy viewing them is a complete ignorant non collecting idiot.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by irv

That is what I thought as well when I read the article. I immediately thought of Battlefield and how she "manipulates" her cards to look better than what they actually are.

Someone please send me Irv's ebay ID so I can block it, anyone comparing me to that scumbag battlefield has no right ever doing business with me. Look at my feedback as darby-s, this is completely unwarranted.

[danmckee]

Of course it didn't look like a 1, it is a gorgeous card, has color all the way to the edge like a 1971 topps, has a horizontal crease and a tiny spot of paperloss on back. Killer eye appeal but a technical grade of 1, and all he wanted was that it was authenticated because he is too stupid to know the cards himself. Let some 25 year old kid tell him it is real, well I didn't need that when I just mashed those Washington Times cards on ebay..... No need for some punk grading service to tell me they are real......

I am gone

Done with this chatboard stuff

[irv]

Originally Posted by danmckee

This is complete BULLSHIT! I sent him regular scans at 300 dpi

I sell as darby-s and you get what you see in my listings

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting here

Originally Posted by danmckee

This is ridiculous, I do not doctor photos, the guy viewing them is a complete ignorant non collecting idiot.

Originally Posted by danmckee

Someone please send me Irv's ebay ID so I can block it, anyone comparing me to that scumbag battlefield has no right ever doing business with me. Look at my feedback as darby-s, this is completely unwarranted.

Did you read my next post after the one I posted above, or did you conveniently skip that one so you could add drama to this one?

While you go retrieve that one to quote, read the one above and tell me where I personally accuse you of actually doing that.

[danmckee]

Sadly Irv, I do not read well at 54 years old and a Redneck

But I truly hope you do not think I am near the scumbag Battlefield is.

I am a collector at heart and pride myself on good business.

Sorry I missed your follow up posts

Dan

[danmckee]

I used to thrive on here, probably started more crap than I should have and was a real asshole at times.... Now I am old and too thin skinned to come back, kinda sad as I could really bring a lot of quality knowledge about the 1987 Topps set that I specialize in.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I used to thrive on here, probably started more crap than I should have and was a real asshole at times.... Now I am old and too thin skinned to come back, kinda sad as I could really bring a lot of quality knowledge about the 1987 Topps set that I specialize in.

Damn and the 1987 Topps is in my 64th favorite Topps set.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I used to thrive on here, probably started more crap than I should have and was a real asshole at times.... Now I am old and too thin skinned to come back, kinda sad as I could really bring a lot of quality knowledge about the 1987 Topps set that I specialize in.

Dan,

I have always wondered what kind of wood is used in the borders of the 1987 Topps set.