Raines, Bagwell and IRod get the call

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I can't wait until next year when all ballots become public so we know who the idiots are who give players like Tim Wakefield a vote.

Vlad should have been a first ballot HOF.

Probably a hometown vote. Not really unusual for good but not great players who were very popular.

I don't think Wakefield is HOF material, but there are worse guys that get votes. One thing so many people overlook are the non-stat things or the things a player might do that help the team but wreck their stats. Wakefield did a lot of that sort of stuff. Like taking a start on short rest with the understanding that no matter what he was going 9 innings because the bullpen desperately needed the day off. That will hardly ever show as a plus on a guys stats.
And it mattered to the team, enough that at one point they agreed on a fairly inexpensive contract that was one year automatically renewing unless Wakefield opted out. Which he did towards the end of his career to negotiate a new contract at a lower price.

Steve B

[Topps206]

How did Brian Giles not get a vote in 2015? While I think he falls short, he was a better player than some would think.

[KMayUSA6060]

I can't believe Hoffman didn't get in 1st ballot. To me, main difference between him and Mo Rivera (borderline unanimous HoFer) is Mariano played for the Yankees, while Hoffman was a Padre.

On a different note... Has anyone ever been do an induction ceremony? Jim Thome is my favorite player of all time, and my buddy and I are looking to make the trip up to Cooperstown next year for the ceremony. Would love to get some tips.

Little side story. My best friend and I met in 4th grade. He was home schooled up until that point, and joined our class a month or so into the school year. He was real shy, so I went up and introduced myself at lunchtime. Found out he's a sports fan, especially Browns/Cavs/Indians. I asked him who his favorite baseball player is, he said Jim Thome. We've been best friends ever since. He's going to be my Best Man in my wedding next year.

[jbl79]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I can't believe Hoffman didn't get in 1st ballot. To me, main difference between him and Mo Rivera (borderline unanimous HoFer) is Mariano played for the Yankees, while Hoffman was a Padre.

Yes, Rivera played for the Yankees but he performed in the postseason. 0.70 ERA with 42 saves in 141 innings in the postseason is what separates him from the other closers. Hoffman will eventually get in but his postseason success doesn't compare. He doesn't quite measure up to Mo in that regard.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by jbl79

Yes, Rivera played for the Yankees but he performed in the postseason. 0.70 ERA with 42 saves in 141 innings in the postseason is what separates him from the other closers. Hoffman will eventually get in but his postseason success doesn't compare. He doesn't quite measure up to Mo in that regard.

Right, which is why I brought up the Yankees. To me, the postseason difference is what makes Rivera a borderline unanimous HoFer, more than just a 1st ballot HoFer. Rivera also had 96 postseason appearances, and the Yankees made the playoffs nearly every year.

Can a closer, who is 2nd in MLB history in saves, be punished for only having 12 total postseason appearances (only 4 times did the Padres make the playoffs)? Hoffman is not unanimous, and that's not my argument. But he's 2nd to only Rivera in Career Saves, and Lee Smith isn't even close in 3rd place. He deserved to be a 1st ballot HoFer in my opinion.

[packs]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Right, which is why I brought up the Yankees. To me, the postseason difference is what makes Rivera a borderline unanimous HoFer, more than just a 1st ballot HoFer. Rivera also had 96 postseason appearances, and the Yankees made the playoffs nearly every year.

Can a closer, who is 2nd in MLB history in saves, be punished for only having 12 total postseason appearances (only 4 times did the Padres make the playoffs)? Hoffman is not unanimous, and that's not my argument. But he's 2nd to only Rivera in Career Saves, and Lee Smith isn't even close in 3rd place. He deserved to be a 1st ballot HoFer in my opinion.

That's not the only thing separating Hoffman from Rivera. Rivera's WAR is 56.6. Hoffman's is 28. Rivera only played one more season than Hoffman but was worth twice as many wins.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Right, which is why I brought up the Yankees. To me, the postseason difference is what makes Rivera a borderline unanimous HoFer, more than just a 1st ballot HoFer. Rivera also had 96 postseason appearances, and the Yankees made the playoffs nearly every year.

Can a closer, who is 2nd in MLB history in saves, be punished for only having 12 total postseason appearances (only 4 times did the Padres make the playoffs)? Hoffman is not unanimous, and that's not my argument. But he's 2nd to only Rivera in Career Saves, and Lee Smith isn't even close in 3rd place. He deserved to be a 1st ballot HoFer in my opinion.

saves is really a terrible stat. It tells us nothing about a player's actual ability. when compared to Rivera in things like WAR, K/9 BB/9 wRC+ against, ERA+...etc he falls wayyy behind both Rivera and Billy Wagner.

I think Hoffman is a HOF'er, but he wasn't as dominant as his save total says