new HOF "impact/era" ballot

[hysell]

Larry, the thing that got me watching Barry, was in those years he led league in walks & by a mile? He might get 1 or 2 real good pitches to hit & often did damage with them ? And he often hit behind Jeff Kent & had not much of a hitter behind him to protect his ab"s ? Robert .

[hysell]

Pete you are correct on Teddy baseball , even if you counted the war years! & I also believe Joe {D} ,the Yankee Clipper , also had 3 to 4 fine years at age 32 or older? Sure are a lot of players? For it NEVER , EVER happen in baseball history & this is just some hitters? Would bet, this would also be true for pitchers , also! But they didn"t use WAR stats back then !Robert.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by hysell

Pete you are correct on Teddy baseball , even if you counted the war years! & I also believe Joe {D} ,the Yankee Clipper , also had 3 to 4 fine years at age 32 or older? Sure are a lot of players? For it NEVER , EVER happen in baseball history & this is just some hitters? Would bet, this would also be true for pitchers , also! But they didn"t use WAR stats back then !Robert.

Nick isn't saying guys didn't have good years late, he is saying until recently they did not go into a typical age-related decline, then revive.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nick isn't saying guys didn't have good years late, he is saying until recently they did not go into a typical age-related decline, then revive.

This!

Guys have up and down years, that's the nature of the game. But before the "roid era" no players had their peak years, then started to decline then suddenly posted a second run of peak years (that in some cases were even better than their prime years between age 26-30) the classic "second peak" that seems to be a serious red flag for PED's.

I'm not saying that's the only way to determine roid users either as many of them used simply to stay in MLB or to maintain enough production to be starters. But the simple fact of the matter is that in the history of the game nobody was a better player from 35-41 than they were from 26-30. Then magically a bunch of guys were, and all during the same era.


P.S. you can't just use batting average for this either as it is an incomplete measure of a hitter's production. It tells us nothing about walks nor the type of hits he got.

[packs]

I can't tell from their posts but is that guy suggesting Bonds didn't use PEDs?

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by packs

I can't tell from their posts but is that guy suggesting Bonds didn't use PEDs?

I think he's suggesting that since there was no smoking gun he ,and the other big names involved, shouldn't be punished by the HOF voters. My counter was that there IS a smoking gun and that is the statistical evidence.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

I think he's suggesting that since there was no smoking gun he ,and the other big names involved, shouldn't be punished by the HOF voters. My counter was that there IS a smoking gun and that is the statistical evidence.

If that is what it takes then David Ortiz must have a smoking ICBM. He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat in Minnesota. Heck he couldn't even make the stating line up of a mediocre team. Then goes to the Roid Sox and becomes a legend.

Crazily him and Pedro are the only 2 players I believe that done PEDs that bother me. Even weirder my 3 favorite players are Red Sox legends.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by hysell

Larry, the thing that got me watching Barry, was in those years he led league in walks & by a mile? He might get 1 or 2 real good pitches to hit & often did damage with them ? And he often hit behind Jeff Kent & had not much of a hitter behind him to protect his ab"s ? Robert .

I agree completely, Robert. As Ted Williams used to say, "when you get your pitch, don't take it, don't swing and miss it, AND DON'T FOUL IT OFF!" And Barry sure didn't! You are absolutely right about the enormous number of walks Barry drew, which are a tremendous factor in creating runs, as seen in Bill James' formula for same. Also, look at the career records of those skilled in both power and drawing walks for some jaw-dropping runs scored totals.

Best regards,

Larry