Hobby history: Card dealers of the 1950s

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedDane

David, I think its fantastic that you have retained (or acquired) the old collecting material, and the information that you are sharing is priceless to me. I didn't start collecting until the late 60's, and cannot wait to see your future posts on that decade. I wish I had kept the old catalogues and newsletters that I received back then.

Thanks for the kind words. I have retained hobby materials going back to the mid-70s, some of which I've posted here (such as this 1979 price list from mail-order dealer Paul Marchant: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=209650). But the items in this post are all from before I was born, and are among the many old hobby publications I've collected over the past 20+ years. I think most of the Gordon Taylor stuff originally belonged to Ray Medeiros, a longtime collector who meticulously saved all kinds of hobby publications starting in the late 40s (most of which I now have), and who is still around and semi-active in the hobby in his 80s. (Ray was also the original owner of the 1950s issues of Sport Fan from which I've posted many articles.) I'm not sure, but I think the Card Collectors' Company stuff I posted originally came from Irv Lerner. I got those price lists along with a bunch of hobby publications addressed to Lerner, and I know (from George Vrechek's interview with him in SCD) that Lerner started buying a lot of cards from Card Collectors' Company in 1959.

[toppcat]

Great post, what an enjoyable read! I love the Jack Davis illustrations in Card Comments.

[irv]

Originally Posted by jsq

David,
as always, love your postings. just a real treat to review card history.

now for an insight i have not seen before:

many discussions of the 52 topps high numbers revolving around sy berger, if i recall correctly, that these extra cases of 52 topps hi numbers sat around topps warehouse, or storage for, depending on the story,
a. some years,
or
b. many years,
before being sent out on a barge into the ocean. (a viking funeral of sorts for mickey rookies)

your above research regarding these sales lists indicate that is not a true story nor a plausible story.

no way would gelman and rosen, who had access to all of topps inventory, be running out of 52 high numbers on the lists you show in this sales sheet of rosens 4 years later in oct 56 and no way would they be selling 52 topps at such a premium price right out of the gate IF the cards were sitting within their grasp. note the 56 list price of hi number 52 topps at 5 cents, same as the 51 topps team cards and 51 topps current all stars!

the logical conclusion is those topps 52 hi numbers were long gone by seasons end and definately by 1956 and the barge story is not very plausible unless the barge drop was shortly after fall of 1952
****and even that STRAINS creduality for the very simple logic that rosen had a great supply of 52 low numbers, why would topps dump the hi numbers and not the low numbers if dumping was their modus operandi???*****
it is a fun sy berger story, like the "babe ruth sat out today with an upset stomach" stories the sports press used to spiel.

also topps would have been happy to capitalize on dead inventory at a premium or for that matter normal wholesale price, obviously they did this with the 52 topps low numbers as rosen had plenty, if the market existed AND THESE LISTS SHOW A MARKET CERTAINLY EXISTED.

a friend of mine bought thousands of cases of topps material in the late 60's and early 70's as returns from season end retail at a huge discount from wholesale price as topps was thrilled to get anything for what they viewed as dead inventory. all of those cases are long gone, sold back into the hobby in the 90's. and larry fritsch ALSO bought thousands of cases in this same manner from at least the mid 60's forward. topps took the money wherever they could find it.

so lets hear some other comments as we noodle on this logic connundrum.

I had never heard of the story that cases of these cards sat around for years, before being dumped in the ocean, until this year.
I had read they were dumped originally and always assumed it was shortly after seeing their cards not selling, but now I have doubts if any cards were dumped, and if some were, it was likely the double printed cards? (read below)

In my opinion, Topps likely had the foresight to see/know that their high series numbered cards, or last series cards, would not sell because they were going to be released so late in the season/year?
With that in mind, I believe Topps didn't print as many as they did with their first series prior? (1-311)

I am not sure when Topps decided to double print some of their cards, 311 Mantle's, 312 Robinson's, etc, but I am assuming it wasn't until after they seen/realized these cards were selling better than they originally thought?

Imo, they likely printed more of these DP cards than they needed as the demand likely quickly wore off, which wasn't far from their original thinking, but just not as long as they were hoping for after they did the DP's?

Of course this is all conjecture and my personal thoughts only, but without any real concrete facts known to exist anywhere, I thought I'd throw out another possibility/theory?