Grading Service Level Confusion - Value?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

A big part of the reason for more expensive service for more expensive cards is the grader's liability while in possession of said cards. If they lose or damage your t206 Wagner or 1952 Topps Mantle they're on the hook for a little bit more than if they lost or damaged your Wade Boggs Rookie.

As for your thoughts about trying to estimate the grade to declare a value, I feel a LOT of people make this mistake, and some people even think that their estimate affects the final grade they receive.

In my experience this has no basis in fact. My declared value always reflects what I would need to be made whole if the cards were lost or damaged in transit and in no way reflect the value I hope to achieve after grading. I have never felt this has negatively impacted the grades I have received and often my declared value has been several multiples lower than the value for the grade eventually received.

[swarmee]

You seem to have an axe to grind, and the rules of the board require you to post your name any time you post an opinion about a person, company, or product.

[swarmee]

And Aquarian is correct, the "value" of the card is based on replacing an equivalent raw card in the same condition, not predicting which grade you're going to get and then submitting for the service level that way. In the case that you submit a 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan to PSA and they assign it a 10, they'll contact you to upgrade the service level to cover the additional insurance needed to have it inside their facility.

[steve B]

As long as your assigned value is within reason I doubt there'd be a problem.

I wondered some of the same things when I went to send in the first few cards I got graded. I thought they were pretty nice, and didn't know if I should put the value of what I thought they'd come back as or some other value.

The SGC guy took a quick look and said "mid grade T206s put them down at 100 each. " The grades were all over the place, one didn't grade being cut too roughly the rest were between 40 and 84.

So the valuing isn't an exact thing. But if you're obviously way off, they'll probably ask for more. My in person ones I had done later were like that but also pretty easy. There was a limit for the "at the show" price, and two of the cards were easily over it. When they told me the prices they just said "we can't do these for the show special since they're worth more" Ok then, how much? They gave me a very reasonable price and I had them done. (Might have been so reasonable since the other seven were extremely easy as were the two more expensive cards. And I didn't pretend I didn't know the two better cards were over the limit.)

Steve B

[scomeau]

Thanks Steve. I had a pretty positive experience at a show as well. I just feel uncomfortable when submitting without the help of a consult. I also don't know what their remedy might be if my estimate is off.

It stings when I get an 'A' grade on what I thought was a nice card, and I never got a refund for over-estimating.

Some of my stuff was acquired quite a way back when few controls (or concerns, for that matter) were in place.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by scomeau

Thanks Steve. I had a pretty positive experience at a show as well. I just feel uncomfortable when submitting without the help of a consult. I also don't know what their remedy might be if my estimate is off.

It stings when I get an 'A' grade on what I thought was a nice card, and I never got a refund for over-estimating.

Some of my stuff was acquired quite a way back when few controls (or concerns, for that matter) were in place.

I know I would be more than happy to help out a regular customer if he had concerns on a card before submitting. If you have a decent dealer that you do business with on a regular basis I'm sure they'd be happy to help. Probably not willing to pregrade 100 cards or something crazy but if you had a couple that needed to be looked at I can't imagine they'd mind. Also if you can submit at a show, SGC might even be willing to do this for you if you have concerns over a higher dollar card, especially if you're throwing them some other business regardless of the outcome.

[scomeau]

Thanks again Scott. Maybe I'll meet you in White Plains sometime. I occasionally attend.

Ha ha ha I still feel a bit uneasy with Service Levels, but your advice is solid...

[steve B]

Originally Posted by scomeau

Thanks Steve. I had a pretty positive experience at a show as well. I just feel uncomfortable when submitting without the help of a consult. I also don't know what their remedy might be if my estimate is off.

It stings when I get an 'A' grade on what I thought was a nice card, and I never got a refund for over-estimating.

Some of my stuff was acquired quite a way back when few controls (or concerns, for that matter) were in place.

I bought a lot of my stuff decades ago too

The estimate is also used for the return insurance.

One of the things to be aware of is how the company handles cards that are actually OK, but have issues that they're not willing to assign a number to.

One of the cards in that first batch is quite nice, but was rejected for the top and bottom cut being too rough. I opted to have rejected cards not slabbed. If I'd had it slabbed It would have simply been an "A" with no explanation. Without, it came back like this.


I'm a bit surprised they made a flip with MIS, but otherwise would have slabbed as "A" seems to me the MIS would be better, but that's how it was done.

I've had two others rejected, one not making the minimum size, another trimmed -All four edges, which I somehow missed. I'm going with it being the last one I added to make a 10 card special and I didn't look closely enough.

Other hobbies have the same tiered pricing structure, coins have a similar thing with quicker turnaround for more expensive stuff, for stamps the turnaround is basically "we'll send it back when we're done". The stamp guys are seldom wrong. (And I've seen one unofficially authenticate two stamps that I took days on in under a minute. ) The stamp places also are willing to issue a cert saying "we decline to render an opinion" not a really common thing, but it's nice to know they'll admit not knowing for sure and can look again if they get more information. Those certs also list the flaws if any, not necessarily for graded, but the authenticated stuff gets the flaws listed in detail.

I do wish the card graders worked the same way, take their time and get it right and decline if they're not sure. And make clear what the problems were.

Steve B

[scomeau]

Steve B.

I'm a little confused about your Needham card. Does the MIS indicate a factory cut issue or are they saying it was trimmed? Looks like a nice card. If the factory cut is the issue, then 'A' would certainly have been an injustice. While 'A' means authentic, to me, it also implies tampering or some questionable aspect. The 'A' without explanation on the slab is a problem for me.

[scomeau]

Swarmee,

Thanks for your reply. My name is Steve Comeau. I am a collector and I have been frustrated to have received no response to my questions to grading companies regarding their policies if estimates are out of line. I do not feel that I have been cheated, but I do feel upset when I get a 'A' on a card I thought was fine and I have estimated a fair value. If I could spot all alterations, I would avoid such a problem, but I can't.

I still fail to see the connection between turn-around time and card value. I would rather pay a fair price for their expertise without the confusion with turn-around.

Thanks again

[scomeau]

Thanks Scott. I see what you mean, but I don't get the sense that there is any warrantee implied by estimating a value. Maybe the graders do there best to help customers when a problem occurs, but I don't see where they have any such commitment.

Good to know your experience of graded value to your investment is positive. As a collector, I don't know that would always be true. I try to do my best, but I usually pay close to fair retail pricing.

Thanks again, for your thoughtful response.

[swarmee]

I can see how that would be frustrating. But anyone who sends in an altered card (trimmed, recolored, etc) should expect it to be returned as Authentic, rather than given a number grade, no matter what they paid for the service. That's what 3rd party grading services do. And expecting higher grades for higher service levels seems like a fool's errand to me. If I'm sending cards in, I'll try to get as many cleared under the $99 and lower price $6/card bulk service special as I can. The other ones I use my annual renewal vouchers.

PSA and SGC charge higher prices for higher valued cards because of the insurance both at their facility and through the mail back to you. And they figure if you send in a $2000 card, you want it done quicker than a $25 card.

[scomeau]

Right. I'd never intentionally send in an altered card with a high estimate! I guess some might do that. That's why I'd be pleased to pay a fair price for the grading process irrespective of value.

As for insurances, while in their hands, they should certainly carry adequate coverage as part of the cost of doing business. For shipping, I have always paid the insurance charges when dealing with SGC - either through their coverage or the USPS.

[ctownboy]

I have some cards that I would like to eventually get graded and I also am having a problem estimating their value. The problem is that these cards are rare (less than 5 known for each one) and they don't come up for sale very often.

What do I do? Guess and hope the grading company and graders have more of an idea of what they are worth or give some sky high value thinking that if the cards are lost or damaged, I am going to have to spend a lot to replace them (if I can find more of them) ?

David

[bnorth]

With PSA I just put what I paid for the cards.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

I have some cards that I would like to eventually get graded and I also am having a problem estimating their value. The problem is that these cards are rare (less than 5 known for each one) and they don't come up for sale very often.

What do I do? Guess and hope the grading company and graders have more of an idea of what they are worth or give some sky high value thinking that if the cards are lost or damaged, I am going to have to spend a lot to replace them (if I can find more of them) ?

David

Originally Posted by bnorth

With PSA I just put what I paid for the cards.

The phrase I used in my first response is definitely the plan of attack I use. What would it take to make me whole. That may be twice what I paid for it, it may be exactly what I paid for it. It is simply the amount I would want to be paid if for some reason I didn't get the card(s) back.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

The problem is that these cards are rare (less than 5 known for each one) and they don't come up for sale very often. What do I do?

Meet them at the National on the first day and pay for grading services immediately to get them by the end of the convention? Or fly into California and request walkthough service? If these cards are worth in the thousands each, that's probably what I would do.

[egbeachley]

I don't think it has much to do with insurance value at the facility. At one point PSA said they had no liability for lost cards.

Rather it's the warranty. How much they have to pay if their grading was later determined to be in error.

[scomeau]

Same thanks to you John. I appreciate you taking the time.