OT New $22,000.00 set from Topps..

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by swarmee

The design of the cut box topper cards are awful, and some of the frames are falling off the cards right out of the box.

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

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[sycks22]

Chopping up a historical document to fit into a card is tough to see. What a waste.

[Snapolit1]

That's an abomination.

I see these guys all the time on eBay trying to sell a Ruth or Gehrig chopped up autograph for $10,000 because it's some 1 of 1 from some recent set. Ridiculous. You could buy a nice signed photo or doc for that. Stupidity.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

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That's pretty disgusting.

............and somehow it's worth more because now it's part of a "card".

I don't get this hobby sometimes.

[dabigyankeeman]

This set and its price is total insanity. Think of the Ruth, Gehrig, etc cards that could be bought with the money they are charging. I can't wrap my head around the expensive modern stuff. Maybe this is ok for a big gambler, but its not for me.

[iowadoc77]

This whole concept is ridiculous. And it is getting worse in a hurry. There are only so many Matthewson signatures and to see them hacked up... awful
And the card companies have dug themselves so deep a hole with new names like flawless and transcendent, and other garbage. Where does it start? It all has to be a one-up of the previous product. What is the upper price limit? This is all made for the case breakers. Few people actually pay $22000 for this unless they are going to sell spots in a case or box break of it. People who buy this crap for resale are going to get their backsides handed to them.
One of the countless reasons i stick to prewar.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

This whole concept is ridiculous. And it is getting worse in a hurry. There are only so many Matthewson signatures and to see them hacked up... awful
And the card companies have dug themselves so deep a hole with new names like flawless and transcendent, and other garbage. Where does it start? It all has to be a one-up of the previous product. What is the upper price limit? This is all made for the case breakers. Few people actually pay $22000 for this unless they are going to sell spots in a case or box break of it. People who buy this crap for resale are going to get their backsides handed to them.
One of the countless reasons i stick to prewar.

Couldn't agree more! I thought hacking up a Ruth or Cobb jersey initially was painful but at least you could use that one jersey for hundreds/thousands of cards and it's kind of neat to think that a lot of smaller collectors could own at least a small piece of an item worn by Ruth (never understood the allure of the bat cards). Cutting up contracts & documents is savage though and only one collector gets to have it. I once had a DiMaggio "cut" that consisted of chopping up one of those pinnacle autographed cards and then framing it in the new card. Total waste!

[Yoda]

Another sign that the apocalypse is near.

[rjackson44]

as my father once said a sucker born every minute ...

[rjackson44]

oh one more thing do an ebay completed search on this ,,nothing is selling ...

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

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After:

I saw this also. The original was 4x6, topps could have designed the oversized "card" around this. I don't see it stated anywhere but it appears they box toppers may be 5x7 so they could have still done a nice matte with frame.

If you are going to cut it up why not take the time to make a nice presentation with a photo of the player. Some of these do have photos and some don't. The original sold for $7170 in Heritage last year. We will see what the new value is after this sells.

[Luke]

This stuff makes me sick to my stomach. I remember the first time I heard about a card company cutting up a bat that Jimmie Foxx had used. It just makes me sad.

I can't understand how there is even one person out there who would want a piece of a cut up bat on a card (or a cut up signature) rather than whatever other piece of memorabilia or autograph they could buy with the same money.

[packs]

I will never understand why Topps can't use redemption cards instead of those cut up abominations. Wouldn't the person who pulled the card rather have the complete item? What kind of monster would prefer a card like that?

[bbcard1]

There was a box break (or case break if you prefer) at $159 per slot that sold out pretty quickly. It should yield the breaker a cool $5K in profit. I would have thought about taking a slot but with my luck would have ended up with the Jose Batista sketch card.

[pawpawdiv9]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

There was a box break (or case break if you prefer) at $159 per slot that sold out pretty quickly. It should yield the breaker a cool $5K in profit. I would have thought about taking a slot but with my luck would have ended up with the Jose Batista sketch card.

I responded to a Net54 thread about this in the 'watercooler section' and showed some pics and about LIVE BREAKS.

I know they are doing this on Blowout forums @155.00 or 146.00 by Houdini
Several are planned
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/a...-per-spot.html

If you look on Ebay right now: There 1 for 179.99 and 2 others have it for 550 dollars.
I also seen where folks are selling the briefcase itself.

Break by mystlsportscards $179.99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Topps-T...cAAOSw2xRYRKze

Break by Oliversportscards $550.00

WE WILL BE DOING THIS A BIT DIFFERENT THAN OTHER BREAKERS... EACH IS ONE SPOT AND THE FULL SET GOES AS 1 SPOT, THE SKETCH REPRO SET GOES AS 1 SPOT. FOR A TOTAL OF 56 SPOTS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-SPOT-IN-AI...gAAOSwnHZYQ3N6

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

There was a box break (or case break if you prefer) at $159 per slot that sold out pretty quickly. It should yield the breaker a cool $5K in profit. I would have thought about taking a slot but with my luck would have ended up with the Jose Batista sketch card.

I jumped in on one on ebay last night for $180, I think. It was the result of irrational exuberance from the stock market's latest run, I think (aside from the post-Fed announcement yesterday). I was pretty excited at the chance of winning a unique card, but as I read the fine print I saw they were also giving away the box and an "invitation to a Topps event" as part of the break. SInce my luck is generally rotten, I imagine I'll end up with the box or the John Smoltz base card. If anyone cares, I'll let you know how I make out.

[BobC]

I work with a colleague who along with another friend of mine, are Breakers. He mentioned being offered two cases of this product from their distributor but, passed on it as they weren't sure the price would be worth it. He said he's now sorry they didn't take the two offered to them.

Apparently my friend heard that Mathewson cut signature card has already been flipped for something like $16K. He said he also heard that someone went ahead and sold a complete base card set of the Transcendant cards for about $7,500 itself, and that the base cards alone were going for upwards of $100-$125 a piece.

He's now saying they could have easily made about $6K per case and sold them both out in one evening. The hobby isn't dead or dying, just morphed into the use of Breakers to sell/distribute new products anymore, with manufactured rarities being the main draw. Apparently Topps did very well with this new release so, expect to see them try to do more high-priced releases like it in the future, and for Panini to follow. With this kind of money involved, it is sad to think that even more vintage memorabilia and documents will be sought to cut up and include on cards for future distribution. Topps and Panini are in business to make money, not preserve history. Sad to say.

BobC

[Shoebox]

But what if I own a game used bat and the buy a second and put it through the wood chipper Fargo style to make the one I own more scarce?

Been a couple of threads where that is discussed and theorized with cards and no one seems especially horrified by the suggestion, but if the same practice involves a modern card release there is no shortage of collectors expressing outrage.

Why the disconnect on one but not the other?

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by packs

I will never understand why Topps can't use redemption cards instead of those cut up abominations. Wouldn't the person who pulled the card rather have the complete item? What kind of monster would prefer a card like that?

because these are not memorabilia collectors. they are card collectors only. i agree with your point, but i think this is why

[bn2cardz]

I personally think some signature cut cards look better after being presented in card format. I hate, though, when I can see the cut edges because the design of the card came before the item. If you are going to make a one-of-one then plan it out so that it presents the autograph in the best way, otherwise keep it as is.

In this case it was a player's release and signed by Mathewson as a president of the team. I am sure there are plenty out there and would have not had an issue with it being included as a cut for a card if the presentation made it that much better, but I really just don't think it does in this situation.

[packs]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

because these are not memorabilia collectors. they are card collectors only. i agree with your point, but i think this is why

But the Mathewson market is so specific. If your product contains Mathewson as a chase card, you are pandering to our specific audience, which is one that is obsessed with preservation. Why would someone who only collects Mike Trout cards be interested in Mathewson being a draw to buy a box?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

If you are going to cut it up why not take the time to make a nice presentation with a photo of the player. Some of these do have photos and some don't.

Photos and, more importantly the rights to use them in a product for profit, cost money. Topps has rigths to some players, but not to others. They may be able to buy those (and should if they are charging this amount), but I've seen it speculated that Mathewson's card image rights are exclusive to Panini (apparently he has had cards made by them in the last few years). Again, I used to work at Topps (as baseball editor, not on contracts).

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

The original sold for $7170 in Heritage last year. We will see what the new value is after this sells.

Actually, that buyer profited nicely, as Topps bought this on ebay a few months ago for $12,500 (link below). I doubt that the card made from it will garner that much, but that is beside the point. The person who won the card paid under $200 to do so, and understanding that is the whole key to understanding the overall phenomenon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...cAAOSwHaBWkvgr

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Photos and, more importantly the rights to use them in a product for profit, cost money. Topps has rigths to some players, but not to others. They may be able to buy those (and should if they are charging this amount), but I've seen it speculated that Mathewson's card image rights are exclusive to Panini (apparently he has had cards made by them in the last few years). Again, I used to work at Topps (as baseball editor, not on contracts).

Actually, that buyer profited nicely, as Topps bought this on ebay a few months ago for $12,500 (link below). I doubt that the card made from it will garner that much, but that is beside the point. The person who won the card paid under $200 to do so, and understanding that is the whole key to understanding the overall phenomenon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...cAAOSwHaBWkvgr

I knew Topps had Mathewson cards, but after your comment I looked and they must have lost the rights after 2011 since that is the last year he was on their cards.

It still doesn't change the idea though. Because this is suppose to be an ultrahigh end product. Why not make sure you were going to have the best design possible. In this case they didn't improve it. Since there is not a photo they could have left it as a full item and just matted it and framed it. It just looks tacky cut and not having the matte frame it very well.

I understand the casebreaks and the ability to get these items at great prices (gambling for memorabilia), but there is a company called Super Break who has figured out how to give out the entire memorabilia piece. Why can't Topps figure out how to do that with these cut signatures? It isn't like a bat where they can fill multiple products these are a single signature pieces repackaged to a single card that SOMETIMES (as is the case with the Mathewson) looks worse.

Again I have no problems repackaging a cut auto, but it shouldn't look rushed and lazy.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Again I have no problems repackaging a cut auto, but it shouldn't look rushed and lazy.

This is one point that I simply cannot argue with. You are totally correct. I can tell you what I believe would be the Topps company line here:

"The Transcendent Collection Cut Autograph Box Toppers are a set, and consistency and uniformity is important for sets and to set collectors. The autographs we purchased had to fit within the set design, not the other way around, and Mathewson autographs are far too rare for us to select one that fits."

There is a lot wrong with that statement and I'm not going to defend it, but that it what they would say if you asked them.

[Snapolit1]

Wayne,
As someone with some industry knowledge, can you comment generally on the plethora of cards in the 80s and beyond where they started cutting up bats, jersey, pants, etc. As someone who would never in 100 years buy a card with two threads in it, I'm just curious how all these cards worked out for the card companies. Did they make a killing on this phenomena for a long time, did it burn out very quickly, was it a perpetual cash cow? So many many of these cards on eBay I just can't fathom there were millions lined up to get a card with a barely perceptible piece of wood, but maybe I'm badly mistaken. Just curious.

[bigtrain]

Inspired by the new Topps Transcendent product, I am thinking to producing my own new product called "Transcendental". I would sell them for approximately $50,000 per box. Each box would contain priceless cards but only in the non-physical, spiritual sense. The cards pulled from the box would be whatever the buyer imagines them to be.

[steve B]

Ok, uniformity within a set is understandable, but they could have retained uniformity by using a smaller window size that showed off the autograph better and retained the diamond motif. Heck, I could do that and I'm not a graphic designer. That they have actual graphic designers who fail that badly is pretty amazing.

I give my daughter the card pack inserts, and she's made me some pretty cool 1/1 sketch cards starting when she was about 18 months. I's almost bet she could do better, and she's only 6.

Steve Birmingham
Whole name, since I'm totally dissing the Topps design staff. Can I use "yeah ya had that one coming" as a defense?

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

This is one point that I simply cannot argue with. You are totally correct. I can tell you what I believe would be the Topps company line here:

"The Transcendent Collection Cut Autograph Box Toppers are a set, and consistency and uniformity is important for sets and to set collectors. The autographs we purchased had to fit within the set design, not the other way around, and Mathewson autographs are far too rare for us to select one that fits."

There is a lot wrong with that statement and I'm not going to defend it, but that it what they would say if you asked them.

[Kenny Cole]

I guess all I will say is that I am not in and will never be. The very fact that this could occur says volumes, and none of it is good IMO. Really an awful offering. Evidently, history doesn't mean much anymore. Too sad.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I knew Topps had Mathewson cards, but after your comment I looked and they must have lost the rights after 2011 since that is the last year he was on their cards.

It still doesn't change the idea though. Because this is suppose to be an ultrahigh end product. Why not make sure you were going to have the best design possible. In this case they didn't improve it. Since there is not a photo they could have left it as a full item and just matted it and framed it. It just looks tacky cut and not having the matte frame it very well.

I understand the casebreaks and the ability to get these items at great prices (gambling for memorabilia), but there is a company called Super Break who has figured out how to give out the entire memorabilia piece. Why can't Topps figure out how to do that with these cut signatures? It isn't like a bat where they can fill multiple products these are a single signature pieces repackaged to a single card that SOMETIMES (as is the case with the Mathewson) looks worse.

Again I have no problems repackaging a cut auto, but it shouldn't look rushed and lazy.

Answer to Bold Pt. 1

A good friend of mine told me this: Topps has figured out a way to sell the memorabilia item AND put their name on it.


Answer to Bold Pt. 2

Nobody is pushing Topps to be better when it comes to baseball cards. They have the exclusive MLB rights. They can rush and be lazy as much as they want, and as long as people still buy baseball cards, they will be around because they are the only producer of MLB licensed baseball cards.

I hate it.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Answer to Bold Pt. 1

A good friend of mine told me this: Topps has figured out a way to sell the memorabilia item AND put their name on it.


Answer to Bold Pt. 2

Nobody is pushing Topps to be better when it comes to baseball cards. They have the exclusive MLB rights. They can rush and be lazy as much as they want, and as long as people still buy baseball cards, they will be around because they are the only producer of MLB licensed baseball cards.

I hate it.

I am not saying you are wrong about Topps thinking, but to think because they have a monopoly on MLB licensed cards and therefore able to do whatever is a very short sighted way of thinking.

Topps only has the rights until 2020. They have lost NHL to Upper Deck and NFL and NBA to Panini. Currently they only have MLS and MLB. MLS is a growing sport, but there is no way they will survive without MLB. I think Topps does a lot of things right, but they really need to take these suggestions to heart.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

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Insanity reigns supreme.
This is repulsive.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Insanity reigns supreme.
This is repulsive.

Richard, I agree with you. But it certainly is the opinion of someone (myself) who does not like the new and shiny when it comes to cards
But to Wayne's point, I can not fully understand the case break phenomenon. My kids got into a few free kid breaks at the national 2 years ago and they got some ok cards, but nothing that would have been anywhere worth it had it not been free. That being said, if you spend any time at all on other forums such as blowout cards, this is all the rage and flipping is everything. Really the only way to keep this price point doable

[swarmee]

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/11709579-post72.html
Additional cut autos Topps has screwed up. But if you read the rest of the thread, even the modern card collectors this this is a #toppsfail.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by swarmee

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/11709579-post72.html
Additional cut autos Topps has screwed up. But if you read the rest of the thread, even the modern card collectors this this is a #toppsfail.

Yowzers! I can think of a few single words that could describe the level of effort that went into these examples in the link.... Whoreable and Whorendous.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by swarmee

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/11709579-post72.html
Additional cut autos Topps has screwed up. But if you read the rest of the thread, even the modern card collectors this this is a #toppsfail.

The "maggio" is so obscene, it's f*****g obscene!

[drcy]

The DiMaggio is kind of humorous (it a comi-tragic way) because you can see the start of it on the other side. It's like "Tell Joe to sit down."

[Jim65]

I dont understand why they couldn't fold it, since the original was creased anyway. Let whoever wins it decide whether to keep as a card or pull it out of the case and display it whole.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

The "maggio" is so obscene, it's f*****g obscene!

Actually this card's flaw has nothing to do with the autograph, but with the picture, which is not an image of Joe Maggio, who played 5 years in the Yankee farm system from 1958-62.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/re...d=maggio001jos

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

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WTF?

I mean WTFF??

Criminal

[Jay Wolt]

Damn! Now Ernest Padgett is lost forever