MVPs: TROUT, BRYANT

Snapolit1 · #1 11-18-2016, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Betts I think was hampered by Ortiz's season. During the season a bunch of people were calling for Ortiz to be the MVP, though Betts was clearly the best player on the team. Trout, though, has no competition on the Angels and is clearly not only their best player, but the best player in the league. His advanced stats tells you everything you need to know:

#1 in WAR
#1 in Offensive WAR
#1 in OBP
#1 in OPS +
#1 in Runs Created (on a terrible team)
#1 in Power Speed

In many of these categories he is ahead of only Betts.

I read somewhere that some of the stats he's putting up this early in his career are putting him in company that only Babe Ruth is in.

packs · #2 11-18-2016, 10:31 AM

I think Mike Trout's age 28 to 31 seasons will be legendary.

Econteachert205 · #3 11-18-2016, 10:33 AM

The only ridiculous argument is that a player on a losing team is somehow more valuable to that team than a player with similar statistics on a winning team. The gold standard for this is Steve Carlton in 1972. So valuable, if it weren't for him they would have sucked worse. Also a player cannot put a team on his back for a whole season, but certainly can for one month, I've seen David Ortiz do it.

nat · #4 11-18-2016, 11:15 AM

The directions for voting for the award mention "actual contribution to the team", and explicitly say that the winner need not come from a playoff team. Trout simply contributed more wins to his team than Betts did to his.

As for Verlander and advanced stats. No, that's not it. Verlander does very well by the advanced stats. He actually led the league in baseball-reference's version of WAR (albeit by a meaninglessly small margin over Kluber). I don't know why Verlander was left off two ballots, he really shouldn't have been.

Snapolit1 · #5 11-18-2016, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nat

The directions for voting for the award mention "actual contribution to the team", and explicitly say that the winner need not come from a playoff team. Trout simply contributed more wins to his team than Betts did to his.

As for Verlander and advanced stats. No, that's not it. Verlander does very well by the advanced stats. He actually led the league in baseball-reference's version of WAR (albeit by a meaninglessly small margin over Kluber). I don't know why Verlander was left off two ballots, he really shouldn't have been.

I was going to make the point you just did. Where does it say you have to be the most valuable player to a winning team. If the Angels didn't have Trout they may not have had any shot a fielding a competitive team.

nsaddict · #6 11-18-2016, 01:18 PM

Guess times have changed. If you want to see a travesty of justice, check out the 1934 mvp voting. They gave it to Cochrane because his Tigers finished first, Yanks 3rd.Total screw job!

Cochrane war (4.0) runs (74) hits (140) hr(2) rbi (75) avg (320)

Gehrig war (10.4) runs (128) hits (210) hr (49) rbi (166) avg (363)

and Lou ended up 5th in voting? wtf

insidethewrapper · #7 11-18-2016, 02:28 PM

Trout MVP ? Maybe.
Here's some other stats : 16th in American league for hits, 26th in HR's, 14th in RBI's and 5th in Ave. His team lost more than they won. Also struck out 137 times. I know he's a great player, but stats can be used many different ways.

packs · #8 11-18-2016, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Trout MVP ? Maybe.
Here's some other stats : 16th in American league for hits, 26th in HR's, 14th in RBI's and 5th in Ave. His team lost more than they won. Also struck out 137 times. I know he's a great player, but stats can be used many different ways.

Nothing you posted would suggest he isn't the MVP. These stats suggest he certainly is:

#1 in WAR
#1 in Offensive WAR
#1 in OBP
#1 in OPS +
#1 in Runs Created (on a terrible team)
#1 in Power Speed

Snapolit1 · #9 11-18-2016, 02:33 PM

From Twitter:

He's led the AL in WAR each of the last 5 seasons. The last guy to do that? Babe Ruth.

nat · #10 11-18-2016, 03:11 PM

"stats can be used many different ways"

That doesn't mean that they're all equally good. RBIs are heavily team-dependent, and so not much use for individual awards. The currency of baseball is the out - you only get 27 of them, and you need to spend them wisely. Although there are a few occasions when making an out is a good idea (sometimes you need a sac bunt), for the most part a batter's most important job is to avoid making an out. Batting average is a nice stat because getting hits is one way to avoid making outs. But it's not the only one, and the statistic that really does measure a player's ability to avoid making outs (on-base percentage) is one that Trout led the league in.

insidethewrapper · #11 11-18-2016, 03:15 PM

You help your team by creating Total Bases, with my formula Betts had 594 and Trout 624 Enchanced Total Bases. Bryant had 577.
Formula is : Total Bases + Walks + Intentional Walks + Hit by Pitch + Sacrifice Bunts + Runs + RBI's + Stolen Bases - Caught Stealing - Ground Into Double Plays - ( HR x 2 ). You need to subtract HR times 2 because it is already included in total bases (4), runs scored (1) and RBI's (1).

Note: Babe Ruth's 1921 Season his Enchanced Total Bases were 841 !!!( I don't have the Double Play data from 1921, so it would be a little lower.) But I think this is probably the best season anyone ever had !

Baseball Rarities · #12 11-18-2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nat

Trout simply contributed more wins to his team than Betts did to his.

Totally agree. This is what makes him more valuable IMHO.

clydepepper · #13 11-18-2016, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nat

The directions for voting for the award mention "actual contribution to the team", and explicitly say that the winner need not come from a playoff team. Trout simply contributed more wins to his team than Betts did to his.

As for Verlander and advanced stats. No, that's not it. Verlander does very well by the advanced stats. He actually led the league in baseball-reference's version of WAR (albeit by a meaninglessly small margin over Kluber). I don't know why Verlander was left off two ballots, he really shouldn't have been.

Hey, whatever makes Kate happy!

bb

Econteachert205 · #14 11-18-2016, 06:26 PM

When will the voters wise up and elect a manager of a dog crap team manager of the year because of his managerial WAR? After all they wouldn't have won 71 games with any other manager

Peter_Spaeth · #15 11-19-2016, 05:40 PM

No issues at all with the picks. I guess Ortiz would have been a nice sentimental choice and I could have lived with that.

hysell · #16 11-26-2016, 12:13 PM

The on-base percentage stat is not correct either?It doesn"t give you a point for walks,hit by pitch & reaching on a bad fielding play?For ase why J.Verlander was lefted off on the Cy Young award, maybe it"s the same reason J.Morris,Trammell,Whitaker & L.Parrish are not in the Hall Of Fame?G.Cater & Lance were the best catchers in their leagues in the 1980"s & both hit 324 HRS in there careers? And Jack Morris, I just don"t get? Most wins in the 1980"s,has a NH ,MVP in the world series,won at least 4 of them & could have been the Cy Young winner in the strike season of 1981 & has more wins, then Bob Gibson, who lost his last world series game,also add 2,000+ k"s in the career of J.Morris & yes,B.Gibson is a HOFer?So guys it"s not perfect, but what in life is?Robert D,Hysell. My A.L. MVP is Mike Trout .

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