Thank you to Leon and supporters: Jim Thorpe Show TOMORROW

[Leon]

Anyone currently involved with doing smaller and localized shows is having the same issues with attendance. My guess is that the smaller shows I set up at locally have 100-200 customer-collectors per day come through....and probably on the lower side of that. If I make 3-6 different sales I am happy. The key is to do it with as few expenses as is humanly possible while having it be well (as well) attended as is possible. That way you have limited the downside. It sounds like a lot of dealers are still with you and that is about 1/3 of the equation. If it were me I would just give it some time for thought and see how I would want to proceed. BTW, if you do it for the love of doing it it won't matter, if you do it for a profit there are probably better ways to do it in the hobby. Heck, maybe just be a spectattor and dealer at other shows? Good luck with whatever way you go. Hopefully these posts will give you more of a perspective ......Happy collecting!!

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

OK I needed a few days to unwind and reflect. Here's my thoughts. We had some AMAZING dealers. Glen Mechanick from these boards has SICK stuff. Glyn Parson is always a welcome addition, Dave Czuba had his usual big stuff including a '52 Topps Mantle, my partner Aaldert Oosting had a fantastic selection of Caramel and T206 cards (some of which are up in the BST section of this site now) and I had my usual run of vintage stuff. This is just the tip of the iceberg and mainly the guys who were located near me, I'm sure the other dealers were great as well but I didn't have much time to browse.

The attendance was poor, but as intended the $5 admission insured that those who came, came to buy. We had a number of issues with the venue which either need to be solved, or we need to relocate, some of these issues may well have impacted turnout to some degree.

The autographs were an unmitigated disaster. The guests themselves couldn't have been nicer, and the little bit of time I got to spend with them was probably the highlight of my day. They could see how things were going so they accommodated any and all requests and were more than happy to tell stories and just meet with people and shake hands etc... Unfortunately we lost thousands of dollars not just in fees, but in all the materials needed to do autographs. If we do move forward it will probably be years before we bring in autograph guests again.

In all with the low attendance I was excited by how positive the dealers were in general and their attitude was what made me consider how we might proceed. If you had asked me right after the show I would've (and did) say NEVER AGAIN!

Thanks again to all those who showed me support and encouragement!

[Rich Klein]

I keep pretty detailed records each show of what we have come in the door.

Our high for one day attendance was 154 and our low was 45 (When the people who run the Addison Convention show had their event the same day)

Almost always we make a profit (different amount each time) when we do not have guests and we usually break even/lose a little money when we have guests. That's why I try to keep the guests we have to a reasonable price point.

Our average attendance is between 75-190 total people and I personally am pretty mellow about letting in kids for free. I let in the kids for free on Saturday as a pre holiday special and we will always have free admission for our holiday show.

One question, were you charging $5 because of the venue's cost or because you wanted to make extra money. Personally, if I'm going to charge $5 at the door, I better have something to give to the customers.

Rich

[Snapolit1]

Another point I made a few months ago is that we on the east coast (particularly NY/NJ area) have a plethora of shows to go to. Regular massive shows in White Plains. Regular shows 3 or 4 places a month in No. Jersey. Massive show at Hofstra University a few times a year. When you collect specialized stuff like many of us do, it's tough sell to drive 2 or 3 hours to a small show unless you are sure it will have what you want. I went to a small show recently and walked in and out in 10 minutes. Nothing wrong with the show just zero I was interested in. It was only a 30 minute drive so no big deal. But if I had then to drive home 2 hours would have sucked. Folks in my area are spoiled as there is is literally a show I could drive to most weekends.'

I wanted to drive over to this one (about 2 hours from where I am) but had family matters to deal with.

I'm no expert on autographs, but I wouldn't expect you'd draw a big crowd unless it is some icon or a beloved local figure. This guy was a good hockey player or a good basketball player isn't going to get a lot of folks in the door. Hell, I was dying to meet Darryl Strawberry at the National and I'd be dammed if there was 20 people on line to meet him.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

It's not all about making a huge profit, we fully expected to take a loss the first time out the door. It's just that the size loss that we took is way bigger than we can handle. That being said if we had eliminated the autographs we would have been somewhere around break even which would have been fine.

My motives were threefold.

One, to fix the problems that I consistently see at shows. basically to promote a show the way I feel it should be promoted and correct the practices I see that, as a dealer at a show, make me less than thrilled.

Two, to give back. We were hooked up with the Jim Thorpe Area Sports Hall of Fame. The non profit that cares for the Jim Thorpe Memorial Park and Mausoleum. They are working on adding a third life-sized statue to the park and I wanted to be a part of that.

Three, hey who wouldn't like to make a buck? But again we didn't expect to make anything this time out.

As for the admission, I do another one day show at a location that has a lot of built in foot traffic. They pack the place, and each subsequent show there have been more people and less sales. I wanted to do a show for actual collectors, not bystanders and onlookers. As a way of paying them back we did drawings and contests for over $100 in "Dealer Bucks."

Never did I think of this as a get rich quick scheme. If that was my attitude I wouldn't have worked so hard and certainly wouldn't have spent so much. I want to build something for the future, and with the right tweaks I don't think, despite the huge losses, that it's out of the question.

[Rich Klein]

Scott;

More than you realize I get it:

1) I also begin running shows in DFW (I began with the Adat Chaverim show) as a way to give back to the community and run the shows the way I would want them run as a dealer.

That's why at that show, we GIVE you cards and an extra surprise in our bags with your suggested donation. That's correct for $1 -- you get over 100 cards plus an extra goodie for coming in the door. We were doing door prizes, but Texas State laws for non profits caused us to change what we do on that part of the show. I should also menti8on that when I began the non-profit show at Adat, I spent probably 2 hours total with good friend Mark Macrae on the phone who gave me great advice based on his 30+ years worth of experience on how to run a non-profit show.

2) That led to the monthly show I run. I want to run the show as a relaxed day for the dealers and for the customers and try to do something a little special each time. Even if it is something as simple as giving free cards to kids, free admission for kids and significant others and reduced table prices for vets/active service personnel or $90 in door prize scrip (We did all 3 of these last Saturday)
If we have a guest, I do become a bit stretched in terms of my time and attention but overall I hope the guest comes close to paying for himself (Unless his autograph is free with admission) and then with some items we get a low price point for items for sale. I can live with a small loss to get items signed. I.E. $100 loss on a show for 100 signed items is perfectly fine by me.

3) $5 admission cost. Now THAT is a pet peeve of mine. You yourself said you did the $5 admission to "intended the $5 admission insured that those who came, came to buy" That is why I asked about the venue cost. IMHO, if you want to limit your dealers and your collectors that is fine, but I get really frustrated here in DFW when there is a $5 or more (GTSM at $10) entry fee. For that price, you should be giving the customers something for just coming in the door. We have a promoter who does 4 shows in the DFW area each year and he has many issues. One of those issues is that he charges $5 for "early bird" and then $3 for the rest of the day. He calls that pre qualifies the customer. There was actually something last week who almost hauled off and hit him for having the gall to ask for $5 and he turned around and walked out. If the place costs you a lot of money, I get it, but if they worked with you on the price to help their cause, I would have been cheaper on both dealer tables and especially admission price.

As a person who has now run shows in DFW for nearly 3 full years now, all of this are things I feel very strongly about in terms of what I want to do for dealers and collectors

Rich

[Leon]

Rich is much more coherent behind a keyboard than in person.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Leon

Rich is much more coherent behind a keyboard than in person.

Leon:

Those show days are really long for me. I'm just happy to say $1 please on those days