AH (PWCC) Reality Check Please

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You were comparing PWCC to the option of listing and shipping yourself so VCP is certainly the relevant measure. There have been probably hundreds of threads or posts noting PWCC prices setting world records and just generally being extremely high. Sure, they don't set records on every card, but that doesn't negate the point.

You state that they get big dollars for prime time cards. I didn't qualify what I said. You qualified your statement to what I said to prove that I am wrong, instead of proving it wrong in the fashion it was made. I didn't state anything about dollars. I said they don't get any more people to view their auctions than if I listed it myself. There is no VCP for number of views. Your entire argument is bunk.

Here is one fact: you would be unable to determine what a card would sell for had you sold in the same manner but yourself, compared to what they will sell it for in identical fashion since you can't list the same card 2 times at the same time, and selling one after the other would potentially eliminate competition on the card.

Do you regularly buy a big card on ebay then consign it to PWCC for them to relist it back on ebay because the margins are so much bigger? No. Of course not. I suppose there will be no changing your opinion and I do not have any intention to do so. Again, you are entitled to it, but to say what I said is "manifestly" ridiculous is...well ridiculous.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Then how do you explain the incredible numbers of cards consigned to PWCC by dealers and collectors across the hobby, surely it isn't just laziness, or stupidity? I would say it's expectation of a higher return borne out by experience.

And I would bet anything far more people view PWCC auctions then would view my auctions if we both listed a substantially identical set of cards. They do reach more people, it is not at all "absurd" to think so.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Then how do you explain the incredible numbers of cards consigned to PWCC by dealers and collectors across the hobby, surely it isn't just laziness, or stupidity? I would say it's expectation of a higher return borne out by experience.

++ PWCC gets more eyeballs by big hitters than any AH, iMO. Other than REA, who only shows twice a year, PWCC is clearly getting the attention.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Then how do you explain the incredible numbers of cards consigned to PWCC by dealers and collectors across the hobby, surely it isn't just laziness, or stupidity? I would say it's expectation of a higher return borne out by experience.

And I would bet anything far more people view PWCC auctions then would view my auctions if we both listed a substantially identical set of cards. They do reach more people, it is not at all "absurd" to think so.

I will caveat it before you argue back and say that not all cards are created equal which is part of my argument, but still, here is a "big card" selling 1 to 2 weeks apart. It took me a few seconds to find it. I am sure I can find a lot more just like it.

http://www.milehighcardco.com/1909_1...-lot45542.aspx


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...p2047675.l2557

[Snapolit1]

Thanks guys. Glad to know I am not losing my mind. Brent seems to have no idea what I'm possibly talking about. I guess some people can't say "gee sorry ....maybe we did fk that up." Lots of other places to deal with. As others pointed out, while they may provide a level of convenience, it ain't like they are marketing your cards for you. They do nothing more or less than what anyone else does listing cards on eBay. We can debate exactly how many more or less eyeballs they get, they are nothing more than a posting and mailing service.
I received a card from the same auction today, and a fairly pricey one, and it will certainly be the last one I buy from them. Who knows, maybe that seller got reemed too and I made out.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Thanks guys. Glad to know I am not losing my mind. Brent seems to have no idea what I'm possibly talking about. I guess some people can't say "gee sorry ....maybe we did fk that up." Lots of other places to deal with. As others pointed out, while they may provide a level of convenience, it ain't like they are marketing your cards for you. They do nothing more or less than what anyone else does listing cards on eBay. We can debate exactly how many more or less eyeballs they get, they are nothing more than a posting and mailing service.
I received a card from the same auction today, and a fairly pricey one, and it will certainly be the last one I buy from them. Who knows, maybe that seller got reemed too and I made out.

Just a posting and mailing service? Do you not see their banner ads above this thread? I bet they spend more on digital marketing than any other AH except Heritage.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I will caveat it before you argue back and say that not all cards are created equal which is part of my argument, but still, here is a "big card" selling 1 to 2 weeks apart. It took me a few seconds to find it. I am sure I can find a lot more just like it.

http://www.milehighcardco.com/1909_1...-lot45542.aspx


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...p2047675.l2557

Don't know much about this issue, but these aren't the same card. One's a Piedmont and one's a Caporal.

[mechanicalman]

WaJo example: One is also very well centered, and one is not.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

WaJo example: One is also very well centered, and one is not.

Exactly my caveat and my point.

Exactly why you can't really compare any card with any other card or look at VCP and make a blanket comparison to say that they always get top dollar for a grade, or that they get more reach and more bids when that information is not made available to the public, or that you would get more money by consigning to them rather than selling it yourself.

My best guess on why people pay more for a card on PWCC, when it does happens, than any where else is the auction closes immediately at a point in time. 2 people put in high numbers hoping to 'buy' the card at the last second and end up paying for the card out of their poopers. Not that they really would have paid that much in another auction style, or that they really want to pay that much for that item.

[BeanTown]

Sniping services cost money to use and I only use them if the item I want is above a certain amount. Other items I put in my high bid and let it ride.

I guess I'm more on the lazy side where I'd rather have an EBay auction company like PWCC sell my consignments. I'd rather send them a box of cards that they can open up, take the picture, give it a title, a quick description, answer any questions about it during the auction, collect the money from the buyer, package the item, ship the item, leave feedback, pay the eBay fees, pay the PayPal fees, and then pocket roughly 2 to 5 percent for their effort. I'm OK with that.

I've consigned to PWCC at the National this year for my first time. Earlier in the year I won nice looking Pafko 52 Topps from another auction company. I had roughly 430.00 in the card and it sold in PWCC for around 150.00. Plus, it got left out of their bigger auction and after I reminded them about it, I was told that they wanted to run it later to make it stick out more. I guess that made sense somewhat, so I let them do it.

I've also won items from PWCC where there were mass bid retractions which left me the high bidder from my bid days earlier. I will say that Brent gave me the option to back out or take the card. I took the card.

My hunch is PWCC most likely didn't look at the close date, because most years November 8 is just another night. I think if any of the consignors notified PWCC and alerted them that they didn't want their consignments ending on Election night that they would pull it and run the next cycle.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Sniping services cost money to use

They don't have to. JustSnipe has free options, for example.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Sniping services cost money to use and I only use them if the item I want is above a certain amount.

Wrong.

www.gavelsnipe.com
have used it for probably 10+ yrs and always free and rarely fails.

And whoever says PWCC is only a mail and ship company, I guess you haven't seen their dedicated banner and also large banners on this board. ALL of our advertisers are appreciated but They (PWCC) spend far more than others do advertising here. They get attention through advertising, go figure.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I said they don't get any more people to view their auctions than if I listed it myself.

This is clearly false though.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Again. I disagree. I am entitled to my opinion, which is based of actual experience of getting equal or less dollars by consigning with them.

Also, I don't know that it is clearly false. There is no proof that is the case. What you state is an opinion unless you have proof, that their reach is higher. If I am not mistaken you sell on Ebay. How come you don't consign if they clearly bring higher dollars.

No more speculation around why I may be incorrect is needed.

[Luke]

Yeah, I guess I can't prove it, so it isn't "clearly false". My language was a little strong, sorry about that. It just seems like common sense though. They create a huge auction event and get a ton of bids. It would be shocking and make no logical sense if the same amount of people are looking at one of my listings (in my opinion).

I would imagine we could look at their "page views" and compare them to a small-time dealer and see a large disparity. I'm not great with computers though, so I don't know how to do that or if it's possible.

Fair question about why I don't typically send items to auction. For one thing, I don't think they get the highest prices across the board. I think they get retail prices or very close, on average. Some small percentage of things go well below retail and a similar percentage set new record highs. Secondly, I like to have full control over the exact price I'll realize when something sells. I hate the feeling of selling something at auction and seeing it go super cheap, which is always a possibility when you send something to auction.