Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by BBB

I've always wondered what the 106 Leo Durocher was all about. Haven't even seen a picture of it in years. Heard theory is it was a proof of what was supposed to go to market before the Lajoie scheme was cooked up. Any other theories or awareness if this thing is circulated or in a vault ?

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The Leo Durocher #106 card is not a "proof" card.

I closely examined this card in 1981, while visiting with George Moll at his home in Holland, PA. He handed me two Durocher cards from his 1933 Goudey
set (George Moll's favorite set). One card had #147 on it, and the other card had #106 on it.

1st for some history...... the George Moll Advertising Agency (Philadelphia) was the force behind all the Play Ball and Bowman Sports & Non-Sports cards
issued by the Bowman Gum Co. (1938 - 1955). Moll employed 12 professional artists who designed all the cards.

In 1938, George Moll convinced Warren Bowman that he should market his popular Bubble Gum product with trading cards. And that led to "the start of a
beautiful friendship".

If I recall correctly, it's my understanding that his Agency produced this Durocher card as a space-filler for Goudey collectors who didn't have a #106 card.


TED Z
.

[brianp-beme]

Great info Ted. That Durocher card has always been a huge mystery within the hobby, and it is surprising that its notoriety pales in comparison to the Lajoie card.

One of the aspects of the 1933 Goudey issue that I think is worth noting is that quality control (or perhaps it can be attributed to more restricted access to production errors) seems to have been much tighter compared to the T206 set. Almost all the cards available are reasonably in register, not missing color passes and not miscut. Cards with printing issues are really hard to come by. Below is one of the few that I have noticed. I imagine there are plenty of others out there, but certainly nowhere near the percentage level of the T206 set.

Brian

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Great info Ted. That Durocher card has always been a huge mystery within the hobby, and it is surprising that its notoriety pales in comparison to the Lajoie card.

One of the aspects of the 1933 Goudey issue that I think is worth noting is that quality control (or perhaps it can be attributed to more restricted access to production errors) seems to have been much tighter compared to the T206 set. Almost all the cards available are reasonably in register, not missing color passes and not miscut. Cards with printing issues are really hard to come by. Below is one of the few that I have noticed. I imagine there are plenty of others out there, but certainly nowhere near the percentage level of the T206 set.

Brian

Brian....thanks for posting your Lefty O'Doul card.

I completely agree with your observation here. Since 1982, I have completed two 1933 Goudey sets; and, I seldom have come across flawed printing in these cards.

Lefty O'Doul is another one of my favorite 1933 Goudey cards. First series card as a Dodger, and his World Series card (post #1) depicts him as a NY Giants player.






TED Z
.

[tedzan]

1933 Goudey BB wrapper



TED Z
.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by tedzan

1933 Goudey BB wrapper



TED Z
.

Anyone know What the RUTH that was promised at the top of the wrapper is? I can’t seen to find it.

[Yoda]

I completely agree with your observation here. Since 1982, I have completed two 1933 Goudey sets; and, I seldom have come across flawed printing in these cards.

Lefty O'Doul is another one of my favorite 1933 Goudey cards. First series card as a Dodger, and his World Series card (post #1) depicts him as a NY Giants player.
There is a very interesting Goudey Ruth #181 misprint in the current LOTG auction. Surprized it made it out of quality control, given the tough standards Goudey imposed. Perhaps considering who the player was somebody in the sheet cutting room pocketed it before the card could be given a final rejection.





TED Z
.[/QUOTE]

[brob28]

I have not seen another Goudey with print issues like the Ruth, anyone else seen any?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The Leo Durocher #106 card is not a "proof" card.

I closely examined this card in 1981, while visiting with George Moll at his home in Holland, PA. He handed me two Durocher cards from his 1933 Goudey
set (George Moll's favorite set). One card had #147 on it, and the other card had #106 on it.

1st for some history...... the George Moll Advertising Agency (Philadelphia) was the force behind all the Play Ball and Bowman Sports & Non-Sports cards
issued by the Bowman Gum Co. (1938 - 1955). Moll employed 12 professional artists who designed all the cards.

In 1938, George Moll convinced Warren Bowman that he should market his popular Bubble Gum product with trading cards. And that led to "the start of a
beautiful friendship".

If I recall correctly, it's my understanding that his Agency produced this Durocher card as a space-filler for Goudey collectors who didn't have a #106 card.


TED Z
.

Ted -

You are constantly amazing me with your vast knowledge and experience.

What great stories!!

I consider myself lucky as heck to be here to enjoy it all.

Thank You, Sir - for sharing!

-Raymond

[tedzan]

Hey Raymond

I'll try to continue amazing you....so, stay tuned to my future posts

Anyway, I really appreciate your very complimentary words.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Ruth vs Root




October 1, 1932....Wrigley Field was the setting of one of the most talked about scenarios in the history of Baseball......Ruth's called HR.

He drove the ball approx. 470 feet into the centerfield seats. It was his 15th (and last) World Series HR.

Other notable events occurred in this 3rd game between the Yankees and the Cubs.....I'll leave it up to you guys to chime in with them ?


TED Z
.

[Matt O'Halloran]

Some of the finest condition signed 1933 Goudeys ever offered are now available on the Heritage auction that just opened.

[tedzan]

What is the unique connection between this Jack Quinn Goudey card and his T206 card ?

TED Z
.

[nat]

I don't have scans of my Goudeys on hand, but let me come out in favor of the ones with the red bar at the bottom. I like cards that reflect their time period, and for whatever reason the advertising on the Goudeys seems very appropriate for the 1930s to me.

Out of curiosity, does anybody know what happened to the original art for the Goudeys? That would be something.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by tedzan

What is the unique connection between this Jack Quinn Goudey card and his T206 card ?

TED Z
.

That Quinn is the only player appearing in both sets, who was active when both sets were issued?

I also want to express my thanks to you Ted, for continuing to share your knowledge with us. It's one of the big reasons I love this site!

Steve

[mrmopar]

Only guy to appear in both sets?

Originally Posted by tedzan

What is the unique connection between this Jack Quinn Goudey card and his T206 card ?

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Ruth vs Root



October 1, 1932....Wrigley Field was the setting of one of the most talked about scenarios in the history of Baseball......Ruth's called HR.

He drove the ball approx. 470 feet into the centerfield seats. It was his 15th (and last) World Series HR.

Other notable events occurred in this 3rd game between the Yankees and the Cubs.....I'll leave it up to you guys to chime in with them ?


TED Z
.

Well, since no one has chimed in with responses to my questions here, I will.......

Ruth's dramatic called HR overshadowed his earlier HR (good for 3 RBI's), and....

Lou Gehrig, also hit 2 HR's in this game, the 2nd of which was hit on Root's next pitch following Ruth's tremendous HR.

As famed sportscaster, Mel Allen, would enthusiastically say...." How about that ! "


TED Z
.

[BBB]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The Leo Durocher #106 card is not a "proof" card.



I closely examined this card in 1981, while visiting with George Moll at his home in Holland, PA. He handed me two Durocher cards from his 1933 Goudey

set (George Moll's favorite set). One card had #147 on it, and the other card had #106 on it.



1st for some history...... the George Moll Advertising Agency (Philadelphia) was the force behind all the Play Ball and Bowman Sports & Non-Sports cards

issued by the Bowman Gum Co. (1938 - 1955). Moll employed 12 professional artists who designed all the cards.



In 1938, George Moll convinced Warren Bowman that he should market his popular Bubble Gum product with trading cards. And that led to "the start of a

beautiful friendship".



If I recall correctly, it's my understanding that his Agency produced this Durocher card as a space-filler for Goudey collectors who didn't have a #106 card.





TED Z

.

Fascinating stuff! Can barely fathom what it should be worth if one actually hit the market again. I bet it would still be undervalued if compared to Lajoie for rareness. Which is a bit of a bummer as it's part of the same legend as the Lajoie. Thanks for Intel.


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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by BBB

Fascinating stuff! Can barely fathom what it should be worth if one actually hit the market again. I bet it would still be undervalued if compared to Lajoie for rareness. Which is a bit of a bummer as it's part of the same legend as the Lajoie. Thanks for Intel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Bryan

There appears to be less Durocher (#106) cards available than there are Lajoie (#106) cards. However, the Lajoie card's story has been "hyped" for decades.
Therefore, this Durocher card's value (plus lower demand) will never approach any considerably high $$$$ value.

Glad to share my Durocher story with you....and, the members of this great forum.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

The Jablonowski card in my set has the official Copyright stamp on the back of this card.
Does anyone else on this forum have Goudey's with the Copyright stamp on them ?

If so, how's about posting them here.


TED Z
.

[brob28]

Interesting Ted, not sure I would have recognized the markings for what they are if I had seen one in the past. So, based on the copyright date, the card would have been released in a series after the date correct? May be an overly simple question, but not being familiar with the process just looking for confirmation as it seems late in the year to be getting the cards copyrighted.

[ZachS]

Besides a signed raw Paul Richards card this is my only other 33 Goudey:




If anyone comes across a lower, left corner let me know.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by brob28

Interesting Ted, not sure I would have recognized the markings for what they are if I had seen one in the past. So, based on the copyright date, the card would have been released in a series after the date correct? May be an overly simple question, but not being familiar with the process just looking for confirmation as it seems late in the year to be getting the cards copyrighted.

Hi Bill

The Jablonowski card was printed on the 4th sheet of the 1933 Goudey set. The cards were issued circa Spring/early Summer 1933.

Most likely that is when these cards were also submitted to the Copyright department. It's my understanding that typically 2 months
transpired until the Copyright registration occurred.

Hopefully, more of these Goudey cards with the Copyright info will be posted here, so we can get a better idea regarding this subject.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

There was a large group that sold in a REA lot.

Here's six from that lot.
Goudey Group.jpg
Goudey Group Back.jpg

And an informative thread that King started about them.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=81615

[BBB]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Bryan



There appears to be less Durocher (#106) cards available than there are Lajoie (#106) cards. However, the Lajoie card's story has been "hyped" for decades.

Therefore, this Durocher card's value (plus lower demand) will never approach any considerably high $$$$ value.



Glad to share my Durocher story with you....and, the members of this great forum.





TED Z

.

Absolutely agree on logic, but would still guess a Durocher 106 might go for 5-10k. Although it's way south of Lajoie , it should still surpass the yellow Ruth . I could be far off base , but that's my wild guess.



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[canjond]

Ted - I always thought the #106 Durocher came from a few early print runs where all of the cards were "misnumbered" - or maybe more accurately - numbered differently before the final sequence was established. In fact, I recall Woody Gelman owned a partial sheet with the misnumbered cards.

[canjond]

Just found an old REA auction description - this may be where I recall reading about the sheet:

"...A small number of similarly misnumbered 1933 Goudey cards have been seen over the years. These cards were never actually issued in packs. All were handcut from the very same early Goudey proof sheet as the famous 1933 Goudey #106 Durocher card. This sheet (actually, partial sheet, as the entire sheet of 24 cards did not survive) was part of the collection of legendary hobby pioneer Woody Gelman. All cards from this sheet had numbers which were different than those actually issued. The one card that was especially noteworthy was the Leo Durocher card, because by chance that card shared the same card number as the famous 1933 Goudey #106 Lajoie, and this one card is very well known...".

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...-jack-russell/

[tedzan]

Hi Jon

I have to call Rob regarding that description. It is quite different from my understanding of the source of the #106 Durocher card.


TED Z
.

[canjond]

No worries, Ted. I'm fairly sure that's where I remembered reading/hearing about the "theory". I'm curious what the history may be - both sound plausible.

[Leon]

First hand knowledge is always best but I am thinking these were about 15 yrs before you started?

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Jon

I have to call Rob regarding that description. It is quite different from my understanding of the source of the #106 Durocher card.


TED Z
.

[Spike]

Finished the 33G set awhile back (minus #106) and its "tools of ignorance" catcher cards remain my favorites, plus the artwork on Joe Judge would stand out in any set.

Great to learn about that 24-card World Series sheet and its missing red stripe! Given that it was their last series of the year, maybe enough people had complained about the stripe taking up valuable photo space earlier in the year and Goudey decided to make the change. Also possible it was a money-saving move? Could've saved them ink or design cost.

[C-mack]

I like the Paul Richards card soo much ! Just a great image

[brob28]

Originally Posted by Spike

Finished the 33G set awhile back (minus #106) and its "tools of ignorance" catcher cards remain my favorites, plus the artwork on Joe Judge would stand out in any set.

Great to learn about that 24-card World Series sheet and its missing red stripe! Given that it was their last series of the year, maybe enough people had complained about the stripe taking up valuable photo space earlier in the year and Goudey decided to make the change. Also possible it was a money-saving move? Could've saved them ink or design cost.

Matthew, I agree the catcher cards are some of the best in the set. The Joe Judger has always reminded me of Joe Jackson.